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Of course I have that authority - it is simply free-will. People can freely choose to form a government.
if you have the authority to force me to do as you wish, then do i have that authority over you? if so, it's a wash. if not, what makes you special?

i also never said people could not freely form a government...for themselves. you can be as big of a commie or fascist as you wish...as long as you don't force me to be a part of it. and there's the rub, you guys always think you have the authority to tell others what to do, but not the reverse.
 

· Member Georgia Carry
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I think you're confusing individual authority with government authority. Of course we can't legally pull each other over, but the police can.

We can't make laws, but we can petition the lawmakers to pass what we'd like. That's not the same as us telling others what to do.

if you have the authority to force me to do as you wish, then do i have that authority over you? if so, it's a wash. if not, what makes you special?

i also never said people could not freely form a government...for themselves. you can be as big of a commie or fascist as you wish...as long as you don't force me to be a part of it. and there's the rub, you guys always think you have the authority to tell others what to do, but not the reverse.
 

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I think you're confusing individual authority with government authority. Of course we can't legally pull each other over, but the police can.

We can't make laws, but we can petition the lawmakers to pass what we'd like. That's not the same as us telling others what to do.
phil, go back and read. it's a 2 part question:

1) do you have that authority?

Answer: No

2) how can you give someone an authority you do not have yourself?

Answer: You cannot

what you're saying contradicts this.
 

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phil, go back and read. it's a 2 part question:

1) do you have that authority?

Answer: No

2) how can you give someone an authority you do not have yourself?

Answer: You cannot

what you're saying contradicts this.
Suppose you have the inability to do something for yourself, but you need something done for yourself in order to survive. How do you get this done?

1) Do you have the ability to do everything on your own to survive?

2) If you do not have this ability (to do everything completely on your own, even producing a child completely by yourself) why would you delegate that to anyone else?

This isn't a diatribe, it is the existential question you posed re-phrased and handed back to you.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong. He believes that COLLECTIVELY when enough people join together to create "a government" that all the sudden this authority that he himself didn't have just appears, and that it is somehow created, and it is worthwhile.

Do you think this is why there is such a push to emasculate men in this country, or did it just happen to coincide with collectivism and statism?

I thought the only reasons governments were instituted in the first place was to safe guard our natural rights. All I see our government today doing is trying to find anyway to take our rights away. 1st amendment, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment 5th amendment, we don't have much left.

I'm just glad I can still go to church on Sunday and not have a certain fear of being thrown in prison or killed. I guess I should be thankful for that *sigh*

They take over half our money in taxes, both overt and hidden, then claim its not enough money. God only wants 10%. Why is our god the government worth so much more?
 

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Suppose you have the inability to do something for yourself, but you need something done for yourself in order to survive. How do you get this done?
voluntary agreement

1) Do you have the ability to do everything on your own to survive?
probably not, even in the best of circumstances.

2) If you do not have this ability (to do everything completely on your own, even producing a child completely by yourself) why would you delegate that to anyone else?

This isn't a diatribe, it is the existential question you posed re-phrased and handed back to you.
i would make the agreement with someone in order to survive. i would also make other voluntary associations with people for more trivial things for a myriad of reasons. in fact, i currently do both.

and you need not explain your reason for asking. i like being challenged and having to think.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong. He believes that COLLECTIVELY when enough people join together to create "a government" that all the sudden this authority that he himself didn't have just appears, and that it is somehow created, and it is worthwhile.

Do you think this is why there is such a push to emasculate men in this country, or did it just happen to coincide with collectivism and statism?

I thought the only reasons governments were instituted in the first place was to safe guard our natural rights. All I see our government today doing is trying to find anyway to take our rights away. 1st amendment, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment 5th amendment, we don't have much left.

I'm just glad I can still go to church on Sunday and not have a certain fear of being thrown in prison or killed. I guess I should be thankful for that *sigh*

They take over half our money in taxes, both overt and hidden, then claim its not enough money. God only wants 10%. Why is our god the government worth so much more?
I never thought I would see these things happening in the US, but when Putin has to lecture our President on Constitutional Law, you just know something ain't right.
 

· Member Georgia Carry
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I suppose the Founding Fathers believed that a government of the people, by the people, and for the people could safeguard our rights.

It certainly does a better job than monarchies.

However nice they start out, all governments really only have one function - to rule. Now, with good rulers, you have peace, freedom, and respected rights. With bad rulers, not so much.

This has been the case with human government from the start.

The nature of men insures there will be no perfect human government, but the nature of men requires there to be government to help curtail evil.

Until Christ returns to set up His government, we will be stuck with human government.

I thought the only reasons governments were instituted in the first place was to safe guard our natural rights. All I see our government today doing is trying to find anyway to take our rights away. 1st amendment, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment 5th amendment, we don't have much left.
 

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I suppose the Founding Fathers believed that a government of the people, by the people, and for the people could safeguard our rights.

It certainly does a better job than monarchies.

However nice they start out, all governments really only have one function - to rule. Now, with good rulers, you have peace, freedom, and respected rights. With bad rulers, not so much.

This has been the case with human government from the start.

The nature of men insures there will be no perfect human government, but the nature of men requires there to be government to help curtail evil.

Until Christ returns to set up His government, we will be stuck with human government.
I had a conversation with a long time friend and he kept pestering me about my interest in politics - and I do mean ... pester. He has only done this when I point out that our President is lying and is a traitor. Those comments seemed to really upset him. In his own way, he kept trying to "command" me to start realizing that Jesus was the answer to everything. He lives in complete ignorance of what is going on in our country, and feels that all you need to do, is pick up the Bible and it will have all the answers, for everything.

I did not disagree with him. He would quote all these different verses (with an air of superiority - you do know the type I am sure). I asked him if he ever read Romans 13:6-7,

"For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."

After he read it - I then asked him if that meant we should honor rulers whom are honorable. I, of course, translate it that way. If a ruler is dishonorable, then show them no honor. In other words, you do not owe honor to the dishonorable.
 

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And then there is James 3:16 " For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. " (NIV)

Um ... yeah. Hillary and Obama. I mean, that can apply to politicians in general ... but it especially applies to Hillary and Obama, and Comey.
 

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I guess my big question, if this government idea is such a good idea, and this government is such a good form of government, then why can't I live in the land known as America, but opt out of your government, if I want to?

Why can't I opt out of your laws?

If your government is such a good idea, why do you have to force these laws onto me?

Why can't I opt out of all of them if I want to and still live here?

Why must I live here on this earth and be a citizen of some country.

Why can't I just be a human being living on the earth?

Why must I be forced into your false belief of authority?

... at gunpoint I might add.

If your government is so good, then I should WANT to be a part of it voluntarily, but I don't. Why must you force me to be a part of it by chaining me to these laws that you think are for my own good?

Why can't all of my associations for protection, travel, food, shelter, water, clothing, firearms, ammunition, toys, ect just all be voluntary without these government regulations and laws having to get between me and other people?

Why am I not able to simply opt out of this idea that you think is good called government and authority? Why force it on me? If its so good, I will want to be a part of it, right now I do not, so why can I not opt out?
 

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I have often asked why I must pay taxes if my tax money was going to be used to murder defenseless babies. Does that not make me complicit in a crime?

When forced to at the end of a gun (Government) what is it called then? I do realize I have the right to protest, but what if my protest goes ignored by the one holding the gun? Do I not have the responsibility to protect the innocent? Even with force if necessary?

Evil exists when good men do nothing

So, to answer the question about the pedestrian. If the pedestrian was violating the law, and the law was put there for the pedestrian's safety, then the "authority" figure, granted that authority by the State, is compelled to enforce the law. But if violating the law did not incur any hazard to the pedestrian, or anyone else, is the law then moot? What if a second pedestrian violated the law, and was run over by a semi? Is the law moot in that scenario? Is the State then responsible for not enforcing the law in that particular incident, but not the other incident where no one was injured?
 

· Member Georgia Carry
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No, unless you voted for the ones promoting the slaughter of the unborn.

Once the government takes your tax money, it's no longer your money.

I have often asked why I must pay taxes if my tax money was going to be used to murder defenseless babies. Does that not make me complicit in a crime?
 
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