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Discussion in 'GWL News & Information' started by Malum Prohibitum, May 6, 2007.
From Police Chiefs Magazine.
This is why I suggest asking, "Am I free to leave," and walking away.
Maybe we should send a copy to Gwinnett's Chief of Police. Hey, dude, in case you missed this when your subscription came.
I will say it again. How on earth can you tell if someone is about to commit a crime?
Easy, sometimes. Ever read Terry?
Let's not get off track here, though. The gist of this article is that, absent reasonable suspicion of a crime, an officer cannot detain a person carrying a firearm (assuming no suspicious circumstances).
MP, I printed it out and I will read it tonight. Sometimes- I will give that to you. But sometimes they can't. I guess my point is MP- two law abidding GFL holders that are doing absolutely nothing wrong and nothing illegal.
Well, in order for the detention to be lawful, they must be able to articulate that suspicion, and it must be reasonable.
Suspicion of what? A crime.
That is what you will learn about reading that case.
Anybody who carries a firearm that has not read Terry should.
Oh, and read the magazine article, too!
On a similar note...
I've seen on "Cops" (and other shows) where the police stop someone for, what looks to me a very minor issue or no issue at all, and immediately put the guy in handcuffs.
The cop usually says something like, "You're not under arrest, but for your safety and mine I'm going to put these cuffs on you until I get this straightened out." Huh? I mean, WTF?
Can a cop put a person in cuffs without arresting him/her? What's the difference?
Isn't that the same as putting someone "in custody"? What's the difference between handcuffs, the back seat of a patrol car or a jail cell? You still can't leave!
If you're in handcuffs, it would seem you're under the control of the cop, which would seem to be the same as being arrested.
What happens if someone doesn't want to be handcuffed and just wants to walk away?
Would that be "resisting"? If so, resisting what? As the cop said, "You're not under arrest..."
What does Ga law say about this?
Cuffs can be used during an investigatory stop, but the officer must be able to articulate specifics as to why they were used.
I agree. That puts the pressure on the cop.
It makes it clear to everybody involved that nothing is voluntary, so the officer must decide at that moment whether he has sufficient justification to force the issue.
Is having a busted tail-light a "crime"?
It sure is, and I got's the ticket to prove it... somewhere...
Seeing a busted taillight gives the officer justification to stop you and issue a citation for it and any other crime (i.e. no ins) discovered during the course of the stop. It does not, however, give him carte blanche authority to search for any further crimes without reasonable suspicion (i.e. the body in the trunk)
I emailed those links to the chief of the Savannah chief with details of my stop and asked that he please instruct his officers.
Maybe I'm getting too dang ticky here but I'm just trying to understand how a officer thinks. You mentioned above the word suspicion. I looked up the definition in the Merriam Webster dictionary and here are the two meanings:
1a. the act or an instance of suspecting someting wrong without proof or on slight evidence: MISTRUST b: a state of mental uneasiness and unceartainty: DOUBT
2: a barely detectable amount: TRACE
I guess based on the definitions they have a wide latitude on what they can do.
You haven't read the Terry case yet, have you? It will tell you more than Merriam Webster. It is the controlling precedent in this country for the outer limits of what the Fourth Amendment allows officers to do when they lack an arrest warrant or probable cause to justify a full custodial arrest.
Terry and its progeny, particularly for the state law questions, are interesting reads indeed. I second the motion for taking the time.