Open Carry

Discussion in 'General GWL Questions' started by viper32cm, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. viper32cm

    viper32cm New Member

    760
    0
    0
    I've read that this is technically legal. The GFL is a firearms permit, not a concealed carry permit. But how often have you actually seen people do it?

    I can't imagine the reactions that I would get if I did so in Atlanta.
     
  2. GAGunOwner

    GAGunOwner Active Member

    I've seen it a few times, but never anyone just walking around town.

    Other than cops, security guards, people at firing ranges, gunshows, gunstores, etc. I've only seen it two times.

    There was an Indian man behind the counter of a liquor store in DeKalb County open carrying a huge nickel plated pistol, probably a 1911. I didn't get to see it that close so I'm not certain what it was.

    The second time I saw a neighbor, also in DeKalb, a few houses down, open carrying in his yard.

    Really, the above examples don't count because both of these people didn't need a GFL because they were at their home or place of business.

    So the answer is no, I have never seen a regular Joe open carry around town.
     

  3. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 1:16

    4,380
    1
    38
    It is rare to see someone open carry. I have seen it only once. It was a Flash Foods place about 4 months ago. I will only conceal carry myself. Just my personal preference.
     
  4. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

    3,562
    2
    38
    I used to see it more when I was in the West End area after dark. Excluding police officers, guards and store owners I have seen it some.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    No, way! Don't do it! It is unethical, immoral, probably illegal, and likely fattening.
     
  6. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

    3,119
    0
    36
    I do it from time to time. I feel like a thug with my weapon in an IWB holster that's in plain view. I feel like it look too much like I just have a gun jammed in my waistband...

    Oh well.

    I'm usually wearing a nice, respectable shirt and tie, so I don't look like too much of a gang banger.

    I neeed another holster...
     
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    In all seriousness - it is not just "technically" legal. So long as you are in your home, car, or place of business, there is no law preventing it. If you have a firearms license, of course, you can carry outside of those places.

    There was even a short time when the Attorney General (Mike Bowers, at the time) declared that the firearms license did not permit concealed carry. Thus, the only option would have been open carry. The General Assembly quickly slapped that opinion down by adding "may be concealed" to the statute. How one could have carried openly in a "briefcase," one option in the statute, is beyond me. :roll:

    But I ask this - is it some technicality that allows open carry when a statute says you may carry a gun with a license and you may conceal it?

    It sounds like open carry is the preferred method in the law to me.

    As for whether it is accepted, try it out once you get your license (which ought to be sometime in 2007 in DeKalb County :roll: ). You will find that it is less of an "event" than you might otherwise expect. Just make sure you are not in an "off limits" place.

    I carried openly into Home Depot last week. I had not yet repaired the air conditioning in my car, and it was like 94 degrees outside, and I just was not in the mood to put my blazer on. I did have a tie on, with my shirt sleeves rolled up, due to the heat. I walked in, did my business, and left. They even accepted my money!

    Nobody looked at me funny. From what I could tell, only one employee even noticed, and he merely glanced at the gun (same as I would have done) and went on about his business. And it is not as if this gun was hard to notice. It was 45 H&K outside the waistband with a stainless steel slide. The holster even lets the bottom protrude out, so it is very obvious what it is.

    No issues.

    This is the same Home Depot where I was stopped outside the store a couple of Christmases ago by a police officer for open carrying. He did not want to see my license - he wanted to "talk guns!"

    :D
     
  8. Taurus

    Taurus New Member

    310
    1
    0
    I usually carry concealed, unless I am going where people know me...My local Publix and local Quicktrips and other conveneince stores....In fact the convenience store pople seem to appreciate it when I show up sometimes...LOL....

    But in places like Target, the Mall, Walmart etc, it's always concealed, partly due the amount of kids and parents there, and the fact that sometimes, they have a public gathering in their public place.....
     
  9. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

    3,458
    1
    38
    I know your question was somewhat rhetorical, but, given my success in convincing you that the media report fairly :lol:, I'll answer. I'm not going to look up citations to support what are about to be several statements of legal principle. Challenge any of them you do not believe to be accurate.

    Criminal statutes are construed strictly against the government.

    No conduct is criminal unless the statute says it is criminal (i.e., that which is not prohibited is permitted).

    "May" generally is permissive.



    The answer, then: No. It is no mere technicality that one may carry openly. A criminal statute cannot express a preference. It either criminalizes the behavior, or it doesn't. It is an exception to the general prohibition against carrying a weapon that one may carry a handgun with a license. Construing the exception strictly against the state, when the statute does not say the carry must be open or concealed, either is valid exception (Michael Bowers' opinion notwithstanding).
     
  10. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

    8,460
    5
    38
    I will go a little farther.
    16-11-126 says that unless you have a carry license
    So 126 says open carry of all firearms is legal, but you cannot conceal it without a licnese.

    16-11-128 says
    128 says you cannot carry a pistol without a license. If 126 already covered concealed carry, the only type of carry left that 128 could be talking about is open carry, which it says with a license is legal.
     
  11. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    Those who carry concealed are scoudrels and cads. No respectable gentlemen would conceal his weapon, as this indicates premediated planning to ambush, through surprise, another human being.
     
  12. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    24,297
    109
    63
    I have, Don't now

    I have open carried on occasions where I could give a very satisfactory answer to the question: "Why do you have a gun? Are you a cop or something?" My answer would have been, " I am on my way to/from the shooting range, hunting field, etc." Or in one case, I was attending a gun show and I walked across the street to a restaurant for lunch, wearing a sidearm and with a combat shotgun slung over my shoulder. Since everybody in the area knew I gun show was going on, I figured people would understand. (And I suppose they did. Nobody seemed concerned).

    I do not carry openly as often now, not at all in the last few years. I just don't want to spook any sheeple. If I did, even though I may be legally in the right under the CURRENT LAW as it exists TODAY, a single episode of a soccer mom crying while being interviewed on TV about the "trauma" she experienced by seeing an armed civilian in a public place where she shops WITH HER CHILDREN, no less, by God, we must do something, if only for the sake of the children... she could get the legislators to amend the law and ban open carry in public places. I think they would do it. So my attitude is, don't give them an excuse to change the law and make it more restrictive.
     
  13. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

    8,460
    5
    38
    I wanted to be a scoundrel ever since I saw The Empire Strikes Back. 8)
    Why you... stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking, nerf herder!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Who's scruffy lookin?
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    Brigands and highwaymen!

    Seen at the Volokh Conspiracy:

    Nah. The 2nd amendment protects the right to keep and bear, own and carry, weapons. Not the right to carry them hidden. At the time the 2nd amendment was ratified, concealing a weapon was considered to be the sort of thing only a highwayman or similar criminal would do, whereas honest men bore their weapons openly.

    I think in some respects fighting for concealed carry reform, instead of fighting to prevent the prosecution of open carry as "brandishing", was a mistake. Open carry at least has the advantage of getting people used to seeing guns again, which goes a long way toward extinguishing the phobias the gun control movement works to encourage.


    :D
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    And a post directly in response:


    Uh, no. The first laws against concealed carry (which were always full of weird exemptions that rendered them hard to enforce with any regularity) were the last phase of an attempt to stop dueling. My book (mentioned above) has a detailed history of the motivations and legislative and judicial history in the eight states that adopted such laws before 1840. The evidence is very clear for Kentucky, and somewhat less clear for the other states, that the sequence was:

    1. Ban dueling. Juries won't convict.

    2. Require elected officials, judges, militia officers, and sometimes, lawyers, to swear an oath affirming that they had not participated in a duel, after a particular date.

    3. In response, instead of the elaborate sequence of challenging another man to a duel, which sometimes led to reconciliation without bloodshed, when insulted or otherwise provoked, men of political ambitions would simply draw a knife or a pistol and kill the other party. People were, it seems, prepared to kill each over insults, but not to perjure themselves about it. (Bizarre.)

    4. Okay, so we'll ban concealed carry. This prevents anyone from taking advantage of another person who doesn't know that you are armed. Also, it takes away the excuse, "I had to shoot him because I thought he might be armed."


    I think in some respects fighting for concealed carry reform, instead of fighting to prevent the prosecution of open carry as "brandishing", was a mistake. Open carry at least has the advantage of getting people used to seeing guns again, which goes a long way toward extinguishing the phobias the gun control movement works to encourage.

    The fact is that bans on concealed carry are relatively modern (in most of the U.S.), and the courts have not even consistently refused to recognize concealed carry as constitutionally protected.

    Concealed carry creates uncertainty as to whether an adult (or adult-looking teenager) is armed, and thus deters criminal attack for everyone. Open carry (where concealed carry is prohibited) deters criminal attack only for the person who is armed.

    (Clayton Cramer's post, I think)
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
    Re: I have, Don't now

    The downside to this approach is the loss of the psychological influence of being exposed to respectable, peaceful, polite people carrying firearms who are not policemen. Your decision contributes to the overall view that somehow carry of a firearm is "weird" or otherwise bad, merely because it is so infrequently encountered (they do not see the concealed firearms).

    If Soccer Mom saw open firearms every day, borne by respectable, clean cut persons such as yourself, she would not care so much.
     
  17. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

    3,119
    0
    36
    Re: I have, Don't now

    Maybe he's scruffy lookin'.
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,350
    379
    83
  19. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

    3,562
    2
    38
    No I am the scruffy one. :D One of the guys at church calls me Osama bin redneck
     
  20. viper32cm

    viper32cm New Member

    760
    0
    0
    What gunsmoker said was what I meant by technically.

    And it all comes down to trouble, not the law. (Odd for me to say that since I'm in law school, I guess I should be more precise in my language).

    If I had my GFL I could walk outside of my apartment right now with my G21 on my hip and be legally in the right (and morally for that matter). However, the problem comes when the idiot soccer mom that lives next to me or any other number of people sees it on my hip. Phone calls would be made, complaints lodged in the apartment office, etc. Though unlikely, if someone tried to detain me because they though I was in the wrong I would have legal recourse against them. However, this all comes down to a matter of trouble. As one of my roommates says "Too many ignorant people, particularly in Atlanta."

    Malum, I've read some 19th century cases where the courts upheld bans on concealed carry because it wasn't constitutionally protected and open carry hadn't been banned. I tend to agree with the logic there.

    Don't get me wrong I'd love to open carry, all the time. I'm jealous of people in states where it is accepted, but I'm very trepiditious of doing it here. VERY.