one in the chamber question

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by glocked_n_loaded, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    i always carry with one in the pipe but i cannot carry at work so i unload when i stow the gun in my trunk at work. what are some suggestions to deal with bullet set-back after reloading it? i already cycle them thru the magazine and fire them on my next trip to the range... but that is not as often as it used to be and set-back is becoming visually apparent to me lately.... just something to ask

    and where do you draw the limit on when to just discard the round?
     
  2. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    I saw a post on Glock Talk about this one day. Several people on the site had a methid that made sense to me, and I'm considering starting to use. Everytime they unchamber a round, they use a Sharpie to put a line around the case and put it in the bottom of the mag ( I know, you have to take all the other rounds out to do it). After all the round in a mag have 5 stripes, they shoot the rounds and reload the mag. The concensus is that any cartridge should be able to withstand being chambered 5 times.
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Adam5, I respectfully disagree with that method. I think that is just a little too extreme about bullet set back.

    But, to be fair, tomorrow I will take one of my carry cartridges (that has never been chambered) and do a test. I'll measure it before and after chambering in increments of five. I won't be easing the round in either, I'll just push down the slide stop and let the slide fly forward.

    My guess is that there won't be any real change in setback until about 25 times.
     
  4. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    I agree that 5 is being way on the cautious side. The way I see it, I'll brobably practice with my carry ammo before I getting 5 stripes on each round anyway, esp with the 17 round mag in my Glock. I try to practice with a box of my carry ammo every month and a half or so anyway. I don't want to get too used to the feel of 115 FMJ in my G17, then have my life depend on accurate/fast follow up shots with 147 JHP. The same goes for 95 FMJ for practice in .380, and 102 JHP for carry use.
     
  5. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    here is a pic of what i am talking about.... the first in a new 124gr JHP, the second is the same round after about 5 chamberings... the third is a 124 gr golden sabre round after about 25 chamberings

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Just be looking at the pic, I would guess that the 2nd is still safe, but the 3rd probably isn't.
     
  7. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    i tried to get the pic to show up on the post but i couldn't ....

    i agree with you on letting the third one go.....that is where i was going with the where do you draw the line to discard the round? how much is allowable?


    <a>[​IMG]</a>
    <a>free image host</a>
     
  8. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Ok, I just did the aforementioned test.

    I used a Winchester White Box Hollow Point cartridge and a Glock 19. Released slide by way of slide stop.

    Here are the results:

    WWB 9mm Bullet Set Back Test
    Normal - 2.8cm
    After 5 - 2.8cm
    After 10 - 2.8cm
    After 15 - 2.8cm
    After 20 - 2.8cm
    After 25 - 2.8cm Note: visible movement of lead towards front of bullet.
    After 30 - 2.8cm
    After 35 - 2.8cm
    After 40 - 2.8cm Note: lead actually coming out of top of hollow point.
    After 45 - 2.8cm Note: copper tip completely deformed.
    After 50 - 2.8cm

    Conclusions:
    The bullet never actually sank into the casing. Around 25 times the lead started to creep towards the opening of the bullet. By the 45th chambering the copper tip was deformed, being pushed inward and making the circle smaller.

    Chambering a bullet upwards of twenty times may affect integrity of the bullet with possible adverse affect to bullet expansion.



    My personal observations: I would be confident that I would shoot the round in normal training well before the bullet may become compromised.
     
  10. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    wow ramm.... that was a very good test... thanks for the info.... i guess mileage varies by brand of bullet and type of gun.

    again thanks.... how much set back would you allow before you considered the round unsafe?
     
  11. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    No problem.

    Me personally? At the first visible sign of setback I'd probably toss it. Now I don't mean getting out the ruler and measuring it, but if you eyeball it and it looks off then toss it. Bullet setback will change the pressure and while Glocks are rates for +P and +P+ ammo, I still would not take the chance.

    The thing that I noticed in my test was that it wasn't so much bullet setback into the casing, rather the deformation of the bullet. If it is chambered enough times to change the opening of the hollow point then it may affect the way the round expands. And since expansion and penetration is the name of the game I wouldn't want to chance using a deformed round.

    I have not tested deformed rounds so I can not say with any certainty that it would change expansion. It is my opinion that it does though.
     
  12. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Thanks Ramm,

    That is interesting. I normally briefly inspect all round that I load. Not in depth, but just look to make sure looks right. Any signs of damage ad it gets tossed.

    Speaking of bad rounds, I had my first bad WWB yesterday. In the middle of one of the mags I ran throught my 17 all I get was a click. I racked the slide to clear it and kept on shooting. After the mag was empty I picked the one that just clicked up off floor and looked at it. You could see where the striker hit dead center of the primer. I loaded that round again and all I got was a click. My Glock ran perfect through about 75 rounds or so (as usual) except for that one round. Just to be sure that it was the round I loaded it into my Hi Point Carbine and got the same result.
     
  13. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    True, I try to practice with my carry ammo about every 6-8 weeks or so, budget allowing.
     
  14. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Speaking of carry ammo...

    Next time I get to the range I am going to cook off my remaining WWB HP rounds. I am going to switch to all Federal HST rounds.

    I've read a lot of stuff about them and they have some of the best expansion I have seen. Not to mention it was more prone to keep it's jacket then Ranger Ts.

    (not my image, stolen from another site)
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    I've been keeping Remington Golden Sabers in the PPK. 955 fps and 200 ft-lbs isn't bad for a 380. I use Hornady TAP-FPD in my glock. 975 fps and 310 ft-lbs.

    BTW: Have you seen the specs on Federal's 9mm 105gr EFMJ? 1230 fps and 353 ft-lbs is pretty good for 9mm. The expanding full metal jacket is an interesting concept.
     
  16. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    have either of you tried hornaday 115gr XTP in 9mm? a friend of mine just gave me 50 of them to try out he is trying to get me to change. (from 124gr golden sabres)
     
  17. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I have Hornady TAP in my Glock 23, but when those get shot out it will e Federal HST. No other round that I have seen gets the kind of consistent expansion like HST.
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Is this a real picture of a round from your gun? I would not fire that one.
     
  19. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    yes MP, that round came out of my gun that short... i already discarded it. ( before i even started the post on the subject)
     
  20. Wiley

    Wiley New Member

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    I saw over on GlockTalk/Reloading that for 9mm Luger a setback of 0.030 just about doubled the pressure. :shock:

    I think that I will continue to unload chambered rounds thru the barrel. I'm cheap but I have grown attached to my hands.