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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obama_asia
"Fresh off a political trouncing at home, Obama was determined to show tangible, economic results on his long Asia trip, and that was apparent from almost the moment he set foot on a steamy afternoon in the world's largest democracy. By the end of the first of his three days in India, he was promoting $10 billion in trade deals â€" completed in time for his visit â€" that the White House says will create about 54,000 jobs at home."

Delusional Guy is at it again.

Step 1. Pay off owners of call centers with $10 Billion >25% kickback.
Step 2. Tell India employees that they are now US Citizens, and now work for a US Company funded by the 25% kickback.

US Gains 54000 new immigrants, being paid minimum wage, and are entitled to food stamps and federal housing.

Obama goes on TV and declares he has created 54,000 jobs for Americans and the Socialist Democrats rejoice at his brilliance.

Bets, Bets, anyone, anyone????
 

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How exactly does ten billion dollars in exports from the United States to India translate to paying off owners of call centers?

The deals include a $4.1 billion agreement for the Indian air force to purchase 10 C-17 military transport planes from Boeing. Boeing said the C-17 deal with India will support 650 suppliers in U.S. 44 states and support the company's own C-17 production facility in Long Beach, California, for an entire year.
a contract for General Electric to provide the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency with 107 F414 engines for the Tejas light-combat aircraft, a deal worth $822 million
Boeing also signed a deal to sell 30 of its B737-800 commercial aircraft to SpiceJet, a leading private airline in India. The deal is valued at $2.7 billion and supports nearly 13,000 jobs
Delusional Guy is at it again.
Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

Obama's a largely incompetent socialist but he occasionally does something right and it's stupid not to take notice of both the bad and the good.
 

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Oh, sure, for NOW there will be a few jobs going to India. American companies might sell some bulldozers for the first couple years, then the Indians will be making their own or buying Chinese earth-moving equipment.
We'll go over there and show them the latest and best way to do this or that, and next thing you know they start doing it for themselves (cheaper) and cutting us out.
20 years ago, China was where India is now. Sure, some Americans made some money off of them. Until they copied everything we showed them, built all their own equipment and supplies, and now they don't need us anymore except to buy their stuff.

Ross Perot was right. Get ready to hear another giant sucking sound.
The thing is, I'm not blaming Obama. Not much he can do about it.
 

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Re: Obama calls India creator, not poacher, of US job

spector said:
Cheap overseas labor which results in cheaper goods is bad because...?
Good point. Maybe if US companies were not forced to pay their lowest employees a certain hourly wage and didn't have to meet ridiculous union pensions, we too might be able to make cheaper goods.

Despite what we have been told our entire lives to believe. A slightly lower corporate tax wouldn't hurt either, but of course we can't do that, corporations pay a large percent of our taxes, so we can afford a little bit more wasteful spending and entitlements in Washington. Of course, that is small potatoes compared to the debt were incurring.
 

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spector said:
http://www.dallasfed.org/fed/annual/2002/ar02b.cfm



This is a chart showing how much US citizens pay to “save†jobs in each listed industry, per year, from foreign competition. We would be better off paying each worker, on average, $231,288 per year to stay home and do nothing.
Ha, well said, Spector. :righton:
 

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India? This is the country that is buying up all our gas stations and laying off all Americans that work there! Then what money they make goes back to India. Sure saving jobs and money! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
 

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The truth is India should be thanking us, the American people. We created a middle class in India. We have lifted millions out of poverty in that country alone. Our greed is the most efficient form of charity ever known.

Our POTUS has no clue how economics works. He is an anti-American collectivist who seeks personal fame and fortune by apologizing for something he knows nothing about. Along with some of the posters here, he would be well served to read Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations". All of it, in it's entirety, several times.
 

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I see on the current news feeds, that Barry bowed to the Indian Parliment.... :shock: Somebody, give that man some backbone!
 

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Savvy Jack said:
India? This is the country that is buying up all our gas stations and laying off all Americans that work there! Then what money they make goes back to India. Sure saving jobs and money! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
You missed the part where they buy our american gas stations with loans given to them as immigrants into our country, buy the stations, fire the american workers, replace with their cousin or another unemployeed local indian and sale cheap crap by the counter while demanding you spend $10 or more to use your credit card.... There is little markets owned in this country now by real americans. I've been on road trips where I see signs " AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED". Go in and there stands an indian wanting to sell me replica nock off knives or pipes. Cant do anything about false advertisement... in reality he is an american now...
 

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TippinTaco said:
Savvy Jack said:
India? This is the country that is buying up all our gas stations and laying off all Americans that work there! Then what money they make goes back to India. Sure saving jobs and money! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
You missed the part where they buy our american gas stations with loans given to them as immigrants into our country, buy the stations, fire the american workers, replace with their cousin or another unemployeed local indian and sale cheap crap by the counter while demanding you spend $10 or more to use your credit card.... There is little markets owned in this country now by real americans. I've been on road trips where I see signs " AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED". Go in and there stands an indian wanting to sell me replica nock off knives or pipes. Cant do anything about false advertisement... in reality he is an american now...
You don't seriously think that foreign people coming here and starting businesses is bad for our economy. Do you?

And what are you talking about when you say "they buy our gas stations with loans"? Are the original owners of the gas station OBLIGATED to sell them the gas station? No, they do it by choice, clearly because the Indian proprietor offers them a good price for their gas station. Surely you aren't suggesting that such consensual transactions should not be allowed to take place?

You really don't think that economic transactions happen in a black hole, do you? In a global economy money "sent" to india doesn't stay there, first of all. Secondly, if the proprietor of a gas station/shop is living here, I assume they are paying taxes, renting/buying a house, driving a car, sending their kids to school, buying groceries, paying for entertainment in the form of movies, etc. Exactly what part of that is not helping our economy?

I think it's time for you to do a little reading: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0517548232/?ta ... bqnmnm4w_b
 

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spector said:
Cheap overseas labor which results in cheaper goods is bad because...?
Nothing... as long as your savings last to buy them after you get layed off because yours was one of those
jobs that went overseas....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
spector said:
TippinTaco said:
Savvy Jack said:
India? This is the country that is buying up all our gas stations and laying off all Americans that work there! Then what money they make goes back to India. Sure saving jobs and money! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
You missed the part where they buy our american gas stations with loans given to them as immigrants into our country, buy the stations, fire the american workers, replace with their cousin or another unemployeed local indian and sale cheap crap by the counter while demanding you spend $10 or more to use your credit card.... There is little markets owned in this country now by real americans. I've been on road trips where I see signs " AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED". Go in and there stands an indian wanting to sell me replica nock off knives or pipes. Cant do anything about false advertisement... in reality he is an american now...
You don't seriously think that foreign people coming here and starting businesses is bad for our economy. Do you?

And what are you talking about when you say "they buy our gas stations with loans"? Are the original owners of the gas station OBLIGATED to sell them the gas station? No, they do it by choice, clearly because the Indian proprietor offers them a good price for their gas station. Surely you aren't suggesting that such consensual transactions should not be allowed to take place?

You really don't think that economic transactions happen in a black hole, do you? In a global economy money "sent" to india doesn't stay there, first of all. Secondly, if the proprietor of a gas station/shop is living here, I assume they are paying taxes, renting/buying a house, driving a car, sending their kids to school, buying groceries, paying for entertainment in the form of movies, etc. Exactly what part of that is not helping our economy?

I think it's time for you to do a little reading: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0517548232/?ta ... bqnmnm4w_b
Some taxes....... I know one that owns two convenience stores that cheats daily on his sales tax and income tax.

If you buy something that totals $12.39, and you pay with a $20 he will key in 2.39 then he will give you back your correct change of 7.61
 

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I was about to say... Seerus I guess you and I see this from two opposite sides od the spectrum. I work in the banking industry and I frequently visit these people on a daily basis. I get every type of question from how do I reprogram this machine to only take credit cards to is it legal to require a minimum purchase to run credit through a machine... When they get here, our government gives them loansm mostly interest free loans to start a business. They in turn use mine and your tax money to purchase and buy out the mom and pop store down the road. Then when gas prices are bouncing around they like to price gouge just enough to where its not noticable to most. Don't give me your lecture on how great it is for immigrants of ALL RACES to come here from another country and take over what was an american owned business and purchase it with american tax payer money. thats not good for business or good for tax payers. The only person that benefits from it is the people who came here.
 

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BG_Atl said:
Nothing... as long as your savings last to buy them after you get layed off because yours was one of those
jobs that went overseas....
seereus said:
Some taxes....... I know one that owns two convenience stores that cheats daily on his sales tax and income tax.

If you buy something that totals $12.39, and you pay with a $20 he will key in 2.39 then he will give you back your correct change of 7.61
TippinTaco said:
Then when gas prices are bouncing around they like to price gouge just enough to where its not noticable to most. Don't give me your lecture on how great it is for immigrants of ALL RACES to come here from another country and take over what was an american owned business and purchase it with american tax payer money. thats not good for business or good for tax payers. The only person that benefits from it is the people who came here.
Please read the following and come back to discuss.
 

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TippinTaco said:
I was about to say... Seerus I guess you and I see this from two opposite sides od the spectrum. I work in the banking industry and I frequently visit these people on a daily basis. I get every type of question from how do I reprogram this machine to only take credit cards to is it legal to require a minimum purchase to run credit through a machine... When they get here, our government gives them loansm mostly interest free loans to start a business. They in turn use mine and your tax money to purchase and buy out the mom and pop store down the road. Then when gas prices are bouncing around they like to price gouge just enough to where its not noticable to most. Don't give me your lecture on how great it is for immigrants of ALL RACES to come here from another country and take over what was an american owned business and purchase it with american tax payer money. thats not good for business or good for tax payers. The only person that benefits from it is the people who came here.
Are the american gas station owners FORCED to sell their gas stations? Or do they do it because they are getting a good price that takes into account the NPV of their current business?

Price gouging does not exist unless purchase is compulsory. If you don't want it, don't buy it.

While I'm no fan of easy money (e.g government subsidized interest free loans) I don't think it's quite the same as GIVING them tax dollars. There are still constraints and it is still a loan. I'm also guessing that the interest-free period is temporary, not indefinite, as it is for student loans. Finally, let's not act like immigrants are the only people getting easy loans from the banking sector. I seem to recall a recent housing and financial crisis fueled by banks and government giving out loans too readily. That is a separate issue that has nothing to do with immigrants. That is a fundamental argument about monetary policy and what the role of government should be in providing financial incentives or disincentives.

If immigrants are coming here and can offer a fair price to an American gas station owner and make a not-so-profitable operation profitable, what is the problem with that? Are you really that economically ignorant or do you just have something against foreigners? And, again, they are not the ONLY people that benefit. It is impossible for only one person to benefit in a voluntary economic transaction. The original owner of the gas station benefits (otherwise he wouldn't sell his gas station), and then EVERY STORE OR BUSINESS that the shop's new proprietor interacts with benefits. Every single one. Does he buy a car? That's a benefit. Does he buy groceries, utilities, luxury goods? Those are benefits. I'm also assuming that the gas, the beer, the soda, the chewing gum, and the snacks in his gas station store don't emerge from a magical vortex. Surely the purchases of those items are benefiting Americans.

If he's making more of a profit than his predecessor, he is either lowering costs to consumers (good) or increasing his margins, which is also good because that gives him more discretionary income to spend. He has removed an inefficiency from the market and he deserves our respect for that, not some vague rambling that he "took american jobs".

AEKDB is right. Read those books, as well as "economics in one lesson" by henry hazlitt. You are arguing the broken window fallacy in favor of protectionist policies, as presumably you are claiming that american business owners should not be voluntarily allowed to sell their gas stations to people who voluntarily wish to buy them. I assume you believe such transactions should be illegal?

If not, then perhaps your argument is that govenrment should not subsidize the interest on loans? In that case, I agree with you. Though that is an ENTIRELY different argument that has nothing to do with immigrants. I assume that you would extend that logic to government-subsidized loans such as student loans and certain types of mortgages? If not, then why are immigrants any different? Are you really making an argument, or are you just ranting about people you don't like?
 

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AEKDB said:
BG_Atl said:
Nothing... as long as your savings last to buy them after you get layed off because yours was one of those
jobs that went overseas....
seereus said:
Some taxes....... I know one that owns two convenience stores that cheats daily on his sales tax and income tax.

If you buy something that totals $12.39, and you pay with a $20 he will key in 2.39 then he will give you back your correct change of 7.61
TippinTaco said:
Then when gas prices are bouncing around they like to price gouge just enough to where its not noticable to most. Don't give me your lecture on how great it is for immigrants of ALL RACES to come here from another country and take over what was an american owned business and purchase it with american tax payer money. thats not good for business or good for tax payers. The only person that benefits from it is the people who came here.
Please read the following and come back to discuss.
Great books. I even wear Adam Smith ties regularly (if you are familiar with them).
 
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