NY Mayor Bloomburg sueing Georgia Gun Stores

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Gunstar1, May 16, 2006.

  1. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well New York is not happy with just the Gun makers, they have decided to go after 15 gunstores in other states, 5 of which are in Georgia.

    A-1 Jewelry and Pawn, Inc Augusta GA
    Big Tom's Pawn Shop Savannah GA
    Adventure Outdoors Smyrna GA
    AAA Pawnbrokers Hephizbah GA
    The Gun Store, Inc. Doraville GA

    http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledg ... 588586.htm
    Interestingly the Mayor had people break federal law to get evidence.
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    New York City's law department singled out 15 gun shops in the five states after hiring private investigators who fanned out to dealers over the past several weeks.

    Wearing hidden cameras, the investigators entered stores and attempted "straw purchases," in which the buyer completes the paperwork and passes the background check, but hands over the weapon to someone else who is not allowed to own a firearm.

    The scam, prohibited by federal law, is typically used by people who are under 21 or convicted felons.

    The city said the undercover investigators entered stores in teams of two, usually a man and a woman. While the woman roamed the store and acted uninterested, the man made all the inquiries about the gun and made it clear he was the buyer, the city said. When it came time to make the purchase, the woman would step up to fill out the paperwork.



    So, why aren't the "investigators" being prosecuted?
     

  3. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    I wonder if they will be offered a deal to testify against the gun stores? If not, testifying at any trial as to the straw purchase would be admitting their guilt.

    No telling where this will go if they get that same activist federal judge.
     
  4. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    Doesn't a straw purchase mean that you are buying a gun for someone who would NOT be eligible for a gun?

    Example, if I buy a gun for a family member or close friend, what's wrong with that? If they are "legal".

    In that case, how do store owners know whether they are legal or not. Say my wife and I go into a store, she see's a gun she likes, and I fill out the paperwork even though she is just as legal as me. Is that a straw purchase?
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    From the ATF.gov web site:

    In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

    In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements.

    . . . It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee.

    This article does not purport to cover sales to persons who purchase firearms with the intent of making gifts of such firearms to other persons. In instances such as this, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records.
     
  6. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    Riiiight.. Gifts... That's what I would be doing IF I ever did that.
     
  7. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    At the range tonight, I was talking to one of the workers in the store and HE brought up this subject. I asked him how would they know they're buying it for someone else. He said the same "investigators" came into his store and had a friend and the conversation went something like this.

    NYC Investigator - "Hey, my buddy here is 21 but doesn't have any ID. Is it okay if I just buy the gun for him?"
    Store Worker - "Nope"
    NYC Investigators leave, go down to the street to another store and find the Store Worker say - "Sure, no problem."

    That's when they got in trouble, after KNOWING that the gun wouldn't be for the person who was buying it.


    BTW, Shot my new Beretta PX4 tonight. Put 350 rounds through it and not a single hiccup! AWESOME!! Too bad the wife outshot me! :oops:
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    So, what is the principal of law that keeps the NYC Investigator from being arrested?

    I mean, can I approach a crack house in New York with money and try to buy under the pretense that I was going to use the information to file a lawsuit?

    :roll:
     
  9. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

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    Tricky area

    Yes, this is a tricky area of the law. I watched the videos Certainly you can't entrap or entice people to crime, and generally LE effects an arrest before the completion of an act, e.g., before the undercover prostitute actually performs the act or before the act for which a politician accepts a bribe in conducted. Here, neither of those occurred. Just because Bloomberg hires you, you can't go around breaking the laws.

    That being said, the people in these videos were pretty obvious (in line with iwb's comments). These unscrupulous shops aren't doing us any favors and are more likely to bring more, unwarranted, laws. I don't like Bloomberg one bit and I don't like his methods. Still, Georgia should be cleaning this up, as it is the law. Will it keep guns out of the hands of BGs? No. They are BGs after all. Does it have the potential to make life worse for the rest of us who enjoy our guns? Yes.
     
  10. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Well, if the quote is exactly accurate, the "investigator" essentially is asking the shopkeeper if a proposed course of action is okay.

    In the crackhouse analogy, you could approach the dealer and say, "If I don't have a prescription for crack, can I buy some?" Is this a criminal attempt, or is it a question regarding the propriety of a suggested course of action?
     
  11. EagleEye920

    EagleEye920 Member

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    Re: Tricky area

    Where did you see the videos?? Got a link??

    Thanks!
     
  12. wa4phy

    wa4phy New Member

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  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Guess you'll have to try it out and let us know!
    :jail:
    That would be a good one for all those "Johns" getting arrested in prostitution stings to try out as a defense!

    "I was just asking her if it was legal to do x, y, and z for $20."
     
  14. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    There is just something that seems wrong with NY enlisting people in other states to attempt to create the grounds for a suit. Isn't it the federal governament's job to enforce federal law? Does this not cause some kind of jurisdicational problem?
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    In this morning's AJC, Alan Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation, writes an editorial arguing that the private investigators committed felonies, which is why NYC did not turn over its evidence to the Batmen.
     
  16. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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  17. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well crap, it's been assigned to Judge Weinstein. :x
     
  18. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    GS, have you seen the complaint? I'm still trying to figure out how the city has a private right of action, and what relief they are seeking.
     
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably just coincidence . . . :D
     
  20. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    No it was from a blog of someone that went to the NRA national convention.
    http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2006/ ... a_co_1.php
    He says it was a topic that came up at the legal education seminar during the convention.