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Nurse ! do as the cop says or get arrested

11K views 201 replies 29 participants last post by  Taurus92 
#1 ·
#77 ·
Seems planning on what patients to take where didn't won't work out for him either.

Nemo

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/05/utah-detective-who-dragged-nurse-fired-from-paramedic-job.html

Utah detective who dragged nurse fired from paramedic job
September 05, 2017, Fox News

The Salt Lake City detective who handcuffed and dragged a Utah nurse who refused to take blood from an unconscious patient has been fired from his part-time paramedic job.

Gold Cross Ambulance, an emergency response service, announced Tuesday that Payne has been fired “effective immediately,†Fox 13 Salt Lake City reported.

In a statement, Gold Cross said while Payne was not working for the ambulance company during the incident, the company takes “his inappropriate remarks regarding patient transports seriously.â€

. . .

During the recorded incident, Payne said he could retaliate against the hospital when he said, “I’ll bring them all the transients and take good patients elsewhere.â€

. . .

continued at link above.
 
#79 ·
Open mouth, insert foot (sigh). Kudos to Gold Cross Ambulance, let's see if his department cares enough about the people they serve to follow suit.
 
#81 ·
She described how she tried to get guards to intervene, saying that Payne seemed angry from the moment he arrived. In the video, university officers can be seen standing by as Payne violently arrests the nurse.

"I was scared to death," Wubbels said.
So were they, Nurse Wubbels. So were they. That's why they took the route of cowardice and did nothing.
 
#82 ·
I am puzzled by this whole event:
1. Did they want to draw the blood or did they order the nurse to draw the blood?
2. If the first did she physically try to stop them? If not in what way was she interfering?
3. If the second did she refuse what she considered an unlawful order? Under what authority did they order her to perform what she considered a illegal action?

As usual the news reports clear nothing up
 
#85 ·
Never count on the truth from any news media. They are all pursuing their own agenda, and then you have the typically massive incompetence of news reporters. Lack of research. Lack of editing. Lack of proofreading.

Plus, there are 3 sides to every story. Side A, side B, and the truth. It's usually based on the viewpoint.
 
#86 ·
One story I read says she refused to provide a sample this one says she refused to let him draw blood. So which is it and did she physically try to stop him?
Provide a blood sample
Get a blood sample
Obtain a blood sample
Draw a blood sample

All substantially the same, but with slight differences of meaning. My take is that Det. Payne wasn't trying to draw a blood sample. Not unless he just happened to have his own phlebotomy kit on his person, that is. And, I'm fairly sure the hospital isn't going to expose themselves to any legal action by letting some random person use their medical equipment on an unconscious person.

That leaves the more believable explanation that Payne requested, then demanded a sample be provided for him and grew angry when his demand was not submitted to by the hospital (in the person of Nurse Wubbles.)

If Det. Payne's position was that Nurse Wubbles interfered or hindered his drawing of a blood sample, that's not supported by the shown portions of his body camera, nor by any reports of his official version of the incident. At no time was Wubbles seen to physically interject herself between Payne and the unconscious accident victim.
 
#87 ·
[Det. Jeff] Payne's defense is that his lieutenant, James Tracy, whom he spoke to by phone, had urged him to arrest her [for not cooperating with his efforts to obtain a blood sample]. Tracy eventually arrives at the scene in the extended video and appears to confirm that Payne acted on his instructions. Tracy also further berates Wubbels as she sits, handcuffed, in the police car. He tells her that, while she may be citing hospital rules, he has "the law" on his side, a formulation he repeats to one of the paramedics who approaches the car, saying, "There's a very bad habit here of your policy interfering with my law." - The New Yorker.com

I think I'm beginning to understand the problem, and it seems to be an 'us' versus 'them' thing for the law enforcement officers involved.
 
#88 ·
[Det. Jeff] Payne's defense is that his lieutenant, James Tracy, whom he spoke to by phone, had urged him to arrest her [for not cooperating with his efforts to obtain a blood sample]. Tracy eventually arrives at the scene in the extended video and appears to confirm that Payne acted on his instructions. Tracy also further berates Wubbels as she sits, handcuffed, in the police car.
That's when you tell your Lt. "No." I did it more than once. Following orders is not really a defense when you are later sued.
 
#89 ·
I think if he went to draw the sample and she interfered they might have a defense.

If on the other hand he told her to draw a sample for him, or give him a sample drawn for another reason, absent a court order, they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't order a person to perform an act they consider illegal and then arrest them for not doing it.
 
#90 ·
I think if he went to draw the sample and she interfered they might have a defense.

If on the other hand he told her to draw a sample for him, or give him a sample drawn for another reason, absent a court order, they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't order a person to perform an act they consider illegal and then arrest them for not doing it.
You are forgetting about item 1.
 
#91 ·
Yes, but in your case, were you telling the LT that someone wouldn't let you so something and you wanted to know what action to take? He was looking for permission to arrest/punish her. And by asking permission he believed he could absolve himself of responsibility.

I imagine it went something like - - -
"She's preventing me from getting/obtaining a blood sample, I can't do my job if she's obstructing me."
"If she's obstructing you, then she needs to be arrested."
 
#93 ·
"She's preventing me from getting/obtaining a blood sample, I can't do my job if she's obstructing me."
"If she's obstructing you, then she needs to be arrested."
Again I think it falls into how she was "obstructing" him. If she was physically trying to stop him yes if she was refusing to comply with an order for an action on her part, like drawing blood, no. He can instruct her to move out of the way he can't tell her to draw blood without a court order.

I'm not a lawyer but I think it comes down to the fact he can't order her to assist him in any action she thinks federal regulations prohibit and then arrest her for not complying. She should have simply told him she wanted the hospitals lawyer present
 
#95 ·
Longer video. Found it through the New Yorker link from Falls above.

Nemo

 
#96 ·
Plenty of cities and police departments are sued often enough to negate item 1. The individual officer might not be liable but the city is for his actions
Taxpayers get punished while criminal cops that break the law walk free.
 
#99 ·
#100 ·
I think if he went to draw the sample and she interfered they might have a defense.

If on the other hand he told her to draw a sample for him, or give him a sample drawn for another reason, absent a court order, they don't have a leg to stand on. You can't order a person to perform an act they consider illegal and then arrest them for not doing it.
I don't give a damn what he wanted. You're not assaulting my unconscious patient. Badge or no badge. The patient can't advocate for himself so that's what I have to do.
 
#101 ·
I don't give a damn what he wanted. You're not assaulting my unconscious patient. Badge or no badge. The patient can't advocate for himself so that's what I have to do.
I was wondering if anyone was going to bring that up. The patient was in critical condition iirc from a head on collision and the medical professionals are suppose to step aside to let some cop draw blood in an attempt to shift blame? Sounds like something songdog would say.
 
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