Nurse ! do as the cop says or get arrested

FBI is on the case (but they won't really do anything)

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...-arrested-utah-nurse-without-cause-heres-why/

gsusnake said:

IV starts can absolutely cause bodily harm

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Been there, done that. With a bad IV stick. Ended up with a forearm as big as a calf muscles. Not fun.

Bunch of compression with warm towels when discovered and a bit of PT to get muscles working right again. Not Fun.

Nemo

jaxenro said:

And if in his professional opinion the actions were detrimental to his patient he would be within his rights. I don't disagree with that.

All I am stating is that in the normal course of events, absent physical or bodily harm, we should give deference to those we vest with the authority to enforce the law and let the courts adjudicate the dispute after the fact. Is that really so difficult to understand or so radical a statement?

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That's going to be a "no" for me, dog.

gsusnake said:

I don't give a damn what he wanted. You're not assaulting my unconscious patient. Badge or no badge. The patient can't advocate for himself so that's what I have to do.

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:righton: thank you.

Malum Prohibitum said:

Local prosecutors ask FBI to investigate the local police
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lp-investigate-police/?utm_term=.1b933ba8031f

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Heck yeah! That's one way to handle it!

Taurus92 said:

Except, she was "arrested", but never charged. Arrested being physically handcuffed and detained. If they really thought they were right, why didn't they follow through? Payne certainly proved on camera he's a hothead and unfit for either of his two jobs previous jobs. Utah detective who dragged nurse fired from paramedic job

Two are suspended.http://www.wtsp.com/news/nation-world/2-officers-suspended-after-utah-nurse-arrested/470315944

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Correct, this arrest was just childish revenge for him not getting his way. He's a cop, dontcha know?

Malum Prohibitum said:

Local prosecutors ask FBI to investigate the local police
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lp-investigate-police/?utm_term=.1b933ba8031f

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That means the investigation could cover officers from the University of Utah and hospital guards, some of whom could be seen in the video standing by while Payne arrested the nurse.

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Who are they kidding? Nothing will happen. Except maybe the reporter and editor catching some flak.

And the elephant in the room, why were they wanting blood from an innocent victim? And why was it so important that Payne went unhinged in order to get it? Investigative reporting? Not. Did they get a warrant to search his house like they did Justine Damond's?

Trying to get ahead of something? As a way to conceal something? Thinking out loud.

As to why were the police (in the form of Det. Payne) seemingly so insistent on obtaining a blood sample from the accident victim, you mean?

Their job is to arrest people. They need some flimsy evidence to do so (once he comes to).

I think I know the answer to why they want the blood. The real question is why no one is actually asking the question. The incident has received national attention for close to a week and as far as I know, no public figure is asking that next, rather obvious, question. The police basically chased some criminal into a head-on with an innocent victim and these, at a minimum, two officers are tyrants about getting some evidence on the victim and nobody asks "Why?" Only in the Matrix.

actually, I think everyone is asking that question
just not out loud since it is so obvious.

No, some naive bonehead reporter should, by all odds, slip up and ask it out loud. They are too scared, which is a huge problem. Tin-foil hat, conspiracy, deep state or whatever you want to call it, they're too scared. Hold on, someone's at the door.

I seem to recall one officer in an interview saying 'we just want to have it to prove the truck driver's innocense' ... which really doesn't make sense as he wasn't suspected of DUI and was not being detained for any such suspicion.

If I were the suspicious sort, I'd think they wanted the blood sample to possibly introduce some doubt as to the pursuing officer's decision to have a high-speed chase.

Apparently, no reporters are of similar suspicious sortedness. Not one, or someone would ask the question. Oh, and since when do we have to prove innocence? I thought they only had to prove guilt since without it, he was (drum roll) innocent! Good thing Wubbles didn't go there. Too bad reporters don't..

Fallschirmjäger said:

'we just want to have it to prove the truck driver's innocense'

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Translation: We really want to find an excuse to smear the victim to divert attention from our exercise in "public safety".

Arresting Officer is shafted. Whether he deserves it (he does) or not. It doesn't matter this was 4 years ago. In public opinion he is a goner.

AMF dude.

Nemo

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-arrest-sexual-harassment-20170918-story.html

Utah cop who arrested nurse was previously reprimanded for sexual harassment

Associated Press

Police documents show a Utah officer caught on video dragging a nurse from a hospital and putting her in handcuffs had previously been reprimanded for sexually harassing a female co-worker.

The records say Salt Lake City police internal affairs confirmed allegations that Detective Jeff Payne harassed a department employee in a "severe and persistent" way in 2013.

. . .

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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-nurse-arrested-20170902-story.html

A 2016 U.S. Supreme Court ruling says a blood sample can't be taken without patient consent or a warrant. But in this case, the officer reportedly believed he had "implied consent" to take the patient's blood.

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Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said the state's implied-consent law "has no relevance in this case whatsoever under anyone's interpretation. ... The officer here admitted on the video and to another officer on the scene that he knew there was no probable cause for a warrant."

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Those darn body cams.

But even with those different objectives, police and medical professionals routinely cooperate [violate the law] and conflicts like the Utah case are infrequent, Martinelli said.

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Could Wubbles have known she was also on camera, so she did her job?

The Salt Lake City police chief and mayor also apologized and changed department policies on blood draws. Police spokeswoman Christina Judd said the new policy does not allow for implied consent for any party and requires a warrant or consent.

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So policy now conforms to the law?

A 2016 U.S. Supreme Court ruling says a blood sample can't be taken without patient consent or a warrant. But in this case, the officer reportedly believed he had "implied consent" to take the patient's blood.

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I wonder if I told a judge that I thought I had "implied consent" to take my neighbor's lawn mower while he was away on vacation, how well that would go over?

I'm reminded of the adage, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse; unless you Are the law."

Cue item 3.

Taurus92 said:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-nurse-arrested-20170902-story.html

But even with those different objectives, police and medical professionals routinely cooperate [violate the law] and conflicts like the Utah case are infrequent, Martinelli said.

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Wait, isn't this admission that such evidence was illegally obtained in addition to violations of HIPPA Laws? They don't get to just "cooperate" whenever they want to.

Fallschirmjäger said:

I wonder if I told a judge that I thought I had "implied consent" to take my neighbor's lawn mower while he was away on vacation, how well that would go over?

I'm reminded of the adage, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse; unless you Are the law."

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Funny thing, there were three articles on chicagotribune. One I didn't link was the PD saying Payne had violated policy. The one I did link, said they also changed their policy. Not only was it a bad policy, Payne didn't follow it.

Taurus92 said:

Funny thing, there were three articles on chicagotribune. One I didn't link was the PD saying Payne had violated policy. The one I did link, said they also changed their policy. Not only was it a bad policy, Payne didn't follow it.

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Were I to hazard a guess on the matter, I'd say it's likely that the previous policy allowed blood alcohol tests with 'implied consent' (consistent with previous Supreme Court decisions regarding breath tests) and Payne in his infinite wisdom wouldn't take the nurses word that it applied to breath; not blood.

The newer policy probably spells it out to keep people like Payne on a shorter leash.

My gut feeling is that Payne (as a paramedic) harbored some slight resentment towards nurses, feeling they didn't give him enough respect. When he became a police officer he thought he could demand that respect instead of earn it and he wasn't going to take some dang nurse tellin' him, A POLICE officer, 'no'.