Ok, well, you have made your point half a dozen different ways. Some of us disagree. You have a different opinion. It is time for us all to steer this thread back on topic to discussion relating to the original situation of the nurse in Utah.
I think you would find if citizens began following police around and interfering with every arrest they thought was illegal the legislature would take a second look at this law. I think (not being a lawyer) that the purpose is to protect citizens from clear abuses of police authorityWe, as citizens, are empowered to stop illegal activity in our presence. Because of thoughts like yours, the legislature clarified that this included stopping police officers engaged in unlawful arrests. As far as the courts go, the issue is settled.
Works for me I won't comment furtherOk, well, you have made your point half a dozen different ways. Some of us disagree. You have a different opinion. It is time for us all to steer this thread back on topic to discussion relating to the original situation of the nurse in Utah.
State and federal law, as well as hospital policy, require police to have a warrant or patient consent to draw blood in such circumstances. Payne had neither.
Wubbels politely read the hospital's policy to Payne and even got her supervisor on the phone to help explain the decision. At that point, Payne yelled, "we're done here."
In response to the incident, the University of Utah Hospital imposed new restrictions on law enforcement, barring them from patient care areas and from direct contact with nurses. "This will not happen again," Gordon Crabtree, interim chief executive of the hospital, said at a Monday news conference.
I have to admit that its possible that neither knew they were incorrect. Small chance but possible.iirc, Payne's supervisor was lying to Wubbels about "the law" while she was handcuffed in the police car. Did they both get suspended?
Don't you think you have a somewhat unfair advantage over most of the population having been a LEO and now an attorney? I'm sure you know just how far you can push an issue before the bludgeoning begins. :mrgreen:I have . . . and I will.
Except, she was "arrested", but never charged. Arrested being physically handcuffed and detained. If they really thought they were right, why didn't they follow through?I have to admit that its possible that neither knew they were incorrect. Small chance but possible.
But that makes it as bad as knowing and ignoring, if not worse.
Payne certainly proved on camera he's a hothead and unfit for either of his twoEither way, reinforces my belief-- In his mind simply because he is a cop he decides everything. Disagree and you are a criminal and deserve a beating or shot then jail. Law be damned.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/nation-world/2-officers-suspended-after-utah-nurse-arrested/470315944SALT LAKE CITY -- Two Salt Lake City police officers have been placed on administrative leave as authorities investigate the arrest of a Utah nurse who refused to blood draw from an unconscious patient.
The Unified Police Department of Greater Salt Lake has opened a criminal investigation into the case involving officers from the Salt Lake City Police Department, CBS affiliate KUTV reports. The arresting officer, detective Jeff Payne, and an unidentified officer have been placed administrative leave for the duration of the probe
This is a point that should not be forgotten.Except, she was "arrested", but never charged. Arrested being physically handcuffed and detained. If they really thought they were right, why didn't they follow through?
Yep, had that little discussion on another board. Once Officer Friendly says "you're under arrest", you're arrested.Except, she was "arrested", but never charged. Arrested being physically handcuffed and detained.
I very seldom ask for you as FB friends to share my posts. But I ask now. Since the Nurse Wubbles incident/arrest in SLC, I feel it's time to tell my stories. The real stories. This post is just the first of many to come. (Update- Post #2 is now up)
First, I love the American Police Officer. I was once one. In my opinion, the things they go through everyday are unparalleled to any profession in our country with the exception of the military. I know what their families go through daily; wives and kids especially. The regular line cop can be literally pinned between horrible admin practices, and the public. This is why the thin blue line only gets thinner and thinner daily. We need cops. We need good cops. More importantly, we need law and order in America.
With that said, we also need more truth and honesty from within some of these upper police admins. This is not in all departments. But it was in mine, when I worked there. I believe we need to have a real conversation about a giant elephant in the National Room regarding law enforcement and how some of these departments operate deep down; More importantly, from the top down. I believe it's some administrations that put officers more in harms way than even a "bad guy" could.
Most people who know my story believe I first garnered the attention of the Salt Lake City Police administration for "refusing" to participate in the Utah Gay Pride Parade. This is not true. I simply did not want to perform/ participate in the parade or be seen as possibly endorsing messages that were contrary to who I am and try to be. I told them I would do security. I ultimately lost my badge and gun for "discrimination". https://www.ksl.com/?sid=33605041 It was truly devastating. It was like a death in many aspects.
What the public doesn't know, nor many officers, is that I was passed up for two positions before ultimately joining the motorcycle squad in 2013. Why? I was ordered to arrest 5 people, per day, AS PART OF A QUOTA! Not just traffic tickets, but misdemeanor arrests. Criminal records on citizens of SLC; all for numbers. I told my sergeant, no. That night after only getting 3 arrests, I was ordered to stay after shift another hour, without pay, to get 2 more arrests. I was screamed at in front of my squad. They went home. I stayed with my sergeant and I still would not do it. I felt that was the beginning of the end. And truly it was.
My name started to get tarnished in the PD among the upper brass. This was an order I actually refused. Not a parade. I felt It was unconstitutional to mandate arrests - which I specifically told my sergeant and this was later conveyed to the administration. I said, "what if the public knew we HAD to arrest 5 citizens each day?" He didn't seem to care at all. "Just do what I tell you."
The current administration knows of this story (and many other scandals I am prepared to tell in the next several weeks on FB) and has done nothing about them. This seems to be their M.O. Cover-up after cover-up. Only until it hits the press. Then all the sudden they are so "concerned, alarmed, taken back, etc, etc, etc." They already KNOW.
Today, the Department is embroiled in yet another scandal - and I'm tired of it. This one involving an arrest at the University of Utah Hospital. Which they knew about for weeks before and did nothing. Today they said "there's no acceptable reason" why people weren't placed on admin leave. I'll tell you the reason; they didn't want to take "acceptable" responsibility and do the right thing, at the right time.
I watch this disturbing video and wonder if this is not another symptom of the ongoing failure at the highest levels the Salt Lake City Police Department. You be the judge. I am resolved to tell my stories. I will be releasing more information (FB Posts) leading up to the end of this month when I hope to have a completed version of my story - in book form - that we are working tirelessly on. It will be available for anyone who cares about this issue of National importance with police agencies around the country.
Many in our nation think it's racism that fuels the fire between police and the public. Sure, there are some racist cops out there. Just like any profession. But few and far between; I've never met a racist cop in my 7 years on the PD. I don't believe it's racism that runs rampant in police agencies, however quotaism does. Statism. Mandatory stopism. Why? All for statistics that lead to Federal and local funding/revenue for many police agencies. I will explain that in further detail in my next several posts.
My ultimate goal is for leaders at the State, National and local levels to address policing at its roots - to include the eradication of administrative practices (driving stats and quotas) that work against the citizens we are sworn to protect by eliciting behavior in officers like what we saw at the hospital last week. We were created to be PEACE officers, not revenue generators for cities. This happens in smaller departments just as much.
The pressures on these officers are real. I felt them daily. Get your numbers! They are born of a lack of effective leadership. I do not excuse what the officer in the video did - he is accountable for his own actions. But I am very suspicious of the environment created around him by those who supervise him - all the way up the chain of command. These are institutional problems and they need to be exposed - for the good of the officers and the good of the community they serve. I realize this will bring scrutiny from many; and on all sides. But I feel strongly it needs to come to light.
The DA's Office (Sim Gill) was highly critical of me when my story first emerged on the global media scene, three years ago. He didn't even know the real story before he said I should "be in a different profession." Who knows what he would say now. I guess we will see how far the rabbit hole goes.
I ask for your prayers for me and my family while we take this on, and many other issues that need to be addressed regarding law enforcement in America. Starting with the Salt Lake City Police Department.
I also apologize to Nurse Wubbles. If someone knows her who reads this, please tell her that. I would have not let that happen if I were on scene. I can promise you that.
post #2 -time off for arrests-
(please share this, along with post #1)
when i was on the motorcycle squad i had to write 20 tickets per night or get 2 dui's. One or the other. If officers did not hit these kind of numbers, they were talked to and watched, until ultimately removed from the squad. Back to patrol. This is the truth. I have two friends who were removed for not producing like they wanted. Reputations ruined.
Further, the salt lake city police department gave us an hour off for every dui arrest we made in that squad. It was called "x time". The day shifters and afternoon squad would get time off for regular tickets. They would work us so hard but realize there wasn't enough time in the day to go to court, then back to work to do it all over again. So we would be rewarded with time off to arrest more people, which landed us back in court, and then back to work everyday. But the harder you worked, the worse it got. The less you worked, you would get in trouble. Do you see? It was a sick cycle.
I am for taking drunk drivers off the street and giving tickets when deserved. However, i'm not for the pressures of the admin for officers to do it. I was caught up in this machine too. I was guilty of not saying what should have been said. I took time just like anyone. I put up great numbers, but it was mainly out of fear from what happened when i was ordered to arrest 5 people per day, and the backlash that happened when i was on the bicycle squad. I started to "go with the flow". Were people drunk? Yes. Were they speeding? Yes. Was there immense pressure on us as cops? More than ever.
It's been said (within the last month) that a motorcycle commander sent a message to his motor sgt's saying that if each motor cop didn't have 548 tickets by a certain date, they would be punished by not going on a squad ride. Punished for not giving tickets to slc citizens. This is what i mean by pressure. Who ultimately pays? Not only the cops, but the citizens as well. The is failed leadership.
I know this has upset a lot of people in the slcpd. I've revived a lot of upset texts and calls; but i believe the department needs a full audit. For their own good and good of the citizens. Remember, there are so many good cops out there who want to do, and are doing the right thing everyday. I love the american police officer, but feel the administrations need to be held accountable for the pressures put on officers. All for numbers that lead to fed and local funding, job security, perception, etc.
Please continue to pray for me and my family. The heat is starting to come from all sides.
IV starts can absolutely cause bodily harm, especially if done by someone who doesn't do it daily.And if in his professional opinion the actions were detrimental to his patient he would be within his rights. I don't disagree with that.
All I am stating is that in the normal course of events, absent physical or bodily harm, we should give deference to those we vest with the authority to enforce the law and let the courts adjudicate the dispute after the fact. Is that really so difficult to understand or so radical a statement?
Remind me to take pics of the two spots on my arm where I got a nice infection from an IV while in hospital. Or just Google "eschar" for a laugh. I had wound debridement every other day for two weeks.All I am stating is that in the normal course of events, absent physical or bodily harm, we should give deference to those we vest with the authority to enforce the law and let the courts adjudicate the dispute after the fact. Is that really so difficult to understand or so radical a statement?