Number of Illegal Aliens Failing Background Check While Purchasing

Discussion in 'National Laws, Bills and Politics' started by Malum Prohibitum, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Take a guess before clicking on the link.

    7:25 AM
     
  2. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    My guess was "per year" for any recent year.
    Clayton Cramer's figure was orders-of-magnitude bigger.

    how many years worth of data went into that number that Clayton cited? Is it the entire history of the Brady background check system, 25 years or whatever?
     

  3. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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  4. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I see a problem with compiling statistics based on denials due to immigration status. What happens to all those people who are legally here on a temporary non-immigrant visa (such as a student visa or a short term work visa) who attempt to buy firearms at an FFL?

    Are they counted as illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States? But that's not true --they may be here legally, but they are not eligible to purchase firearms. ( generally, although some of them can under some circumstances--if they obtain a state hunting license for example .)


    Putting legal non-immigrant visitors in the same category as illegal aliens would inflate the numbers --possibly doubling them.
     
  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    If they were actually stupid enough to go through an FFL, why weren't they immediately reported and apprehended? Because the government doesn't really give a damn. It's all kabuki theater.
     
  6. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    So, Moe, are you accusing the government of being evil by discriminating against these people and their God-given (and 2nd Amd. enshrined) gun rights,

    or are you accusing the government of simple incompetence by not effectively disarming them?
     
  7. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    If anyone thinks that those denied did not go out and acquire a gun by other means, i've got a beach front condo in Arizona that I'd like to sell.

    Background checks do nothing but inconvenience law abiding citizens, waste federal resources, create a backdoor gun registry, and feed demand for black market stolen weapons. They're worthless and they need to go away.
     
  8. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Whether the government is or isn't evil (as opposed to say just incompetent) is a topic for another day.

    Current law states only legal aliens may purchase firearms. This topic is about illegal aliens (strike 1, misdemeanor or felony) who willfully lie on the 4473 (stike 2, felony). God-given rights or not, they should be arrested and prosecuted as are the rest of us who commit crimes. That's not discrimination. Instead they're just ignored and left to go purchase some gun out of Jose's or Leroy's trunk.

    The federal government IS incompetent simply because of its size.
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  10. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    ICE's official anthem? :lol:
     
  11. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    The BGC through an FFL comes back 1 of 3 ways. Proceed, Delayed or Denied. Proceed the firearm is transferred then, Delayed the firearm can be transferred if the ATF doesn't return a denied within 3 business days, Denied the firearm can't be transferred. If denied there is nothing the ATF, or FBI will do about an attempted purchase. If a delayed comes back after the 3 business days as denied the ATF or the FBI will call and ask if the firearm was transferred. If not nothing happens. If the firearm has been transferred address, phone number make, model, type and serial number of the firearm are transmitted to the ATF. None of this information is submitted during the BGC on the 4473.
     
  12. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But to be honest I wouldn't know how to go buy a gun illegally. Maybe I'm just not good at being a criminal. But I cant say it doesnt help
     
  13. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    Private sale off armslist is perfectly legal. Not for you, but the seller doesn't know that if you don't tell them.
    80% lower is easy enough to complete.
    12 gauge zip gun is $10 worth of pipe
    .22 zip gun even less
    There's always the trucks and cars with NRA, GCO, or other 2A stickers on them that are likely to house a poorly secured firearm under a seat or in the glovebox
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    And this is something those critical of increasing laws regarding "loopholes" in the background check process have pointed out repeatedly. They call on those charged with enforcing the law to do something about those attempting to acquire firearms illegally. Maybe there are just too many of them, and not enough resources to cover it?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...buy-gun-fear-not-feds/?utm_term=.f64e023a2a58

    How many of the investigated cases resulted in prosecutions?

    Twelve.

    That’s 0.09 percent of the cases ATF investigated.

    That means the crooks, the wife beaters and the homicidal maniacs who lie to get a gun have little reason to worry that Uncle Sam will get them for faking on Form 4473. It lists nine questions designed to cull those who should not be strapped. The questions include: “Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony,” “Are you a fugitive from justice,” and “Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective.”

    That raises this question from Avery Gardiner, co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence:If it's official DOJ policy to enforce existing gun laws, why isn't the government following its own policy?”
    It's kind of weird when the NRA and the Brady Campaign agree, but nothing changes.
     
  15. GoDores

    GoDores Like a Boss

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    The original link appears to be the total number of people in each prohibited category in the NCIS database, not any count of actual denials.

    Gunsmoker's later link indicates 3,337 people were denied in 2017 for being an "illegal/unlawful alien". As was already pointed out, it's not clear whether these were all people in the country illegally or if some or all of those people were here legally but not in an immigration category permitting them to own firearms.
     
  16. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    In all cases those denied have provided the correct answers on the 4473 to get approved. Nothing happens to them about false answers on a federal form signed as under oath. Some are sent out the door before even completing the 4473 because something just doesn't seem to be on the up and up. Those 4473's are marked void. The only loophole is in lack of enforcement. They are just to busy keeping track of those of us who are not criminals that want to own the fun stuff to worry about the criminals attempting to illegally acquire firearms.
     
  17. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I know some gun store employees will call the local police / sheriff when a convicted felon tries to buy a gun from them and lies on the form.
    I'm not sure how they know the reason for the denial.
    ATF / NICS doesn't tell the gun store, do they?

    But I've seen the arrests happen, and one of them I prosecuted when I was an Assistant D.A. The guy got a State felony charge for criminal attempt-- and the crime was possession of firearm by felon.
     
  18. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    No reason is given for the denial during the NICS background check.
     
  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    There's approximately 2 dozen FFLs in Floyd County. Not all of them are mainstream sellers. On any given day how many of them might encounter a questionable transaction? I would think none to very few. How difficult would it be for the Rome Police, Rome Floyd County Police or the Sheriff's Office to follow up and hold a possible criminal for the feds? I think not that difficult. I'd guess more populous counties would be proportionally the same. Maybe the real problem is complacency.

    Which is easier for law enforcement to deal with: A) Joe Goodguy or B) Marv the drug dealer?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  20. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. The low hanging fruit (us) gets all the attention.