Nine FTF while Training with my CPO Sig Sauer P229

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by EJR914, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    My Sig P229 is an older, but in great shape, certified pre-owned Sig, that came straight from the factory to me. Not many rounds have been fired out of it. The slide is perfectly tight, and everything else on the gun seems tight and tip top.

    I've done my FTF drills plenty so I was good at fixing them, but at the same time, I got really freaked out. This is my main carry weapon and I depend on it to function lawlessly to save my life is the situation occurred.

    Nine FTF's in around 50 rounds with Atlanta Arms FMJ's.

    Also, making me think of carry a BUG gun as well.

    So I'm wondering what the problem could be... its not Mags, FTF's happened with all three of the mags I had. Its not the AMMO because I tried hollow points Gold Dots and FMJ Atlanta Arms.

    Anyway, I went into CroBar today to buy some more ammo, and I was talking to Justin and Taylor in there, and they took my gun apart and they found out there was a tiny binding in my Recoil Spring. It was also shorter than it was supposed to be, and slightly bent. He thought this was the problem, so I've ordered three factory recoil springs, just for future shooting as well.

    I don't think I'm even close to running 1,000 rounds through this Certified Pre-Owned Sig since I got it.

    The scary thing is, that I've never had one problem with this gun, and then BOOM, all the sudden, FTF's coming out my ears. Imagine what could have happened in a self-defense shooting, if I had shot once, missed or didn't bring him down, and then had the FTF, and the other guy hit me before I could clear the FTF. Not pretty. Its a real nightmare situation.

    I'm really thinking of saving for a BUG now, once I get all the kinks out of the Sig. I hope the recoil spring works.

    If not, I'll be back here trying to figure out what else it could be.

    Also, practice your FTF's and FTE's. Do your drills, because I guess it could happen, even with a gun you've never had a problem with before. It could be the difference between life and death.

    Happy training everyone!
     
  2. Rhodes

    Rhodes New Member

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    My wife and I load each other's mags for use at the range. Snap caps are added wherever and in whatever amount we choose. It really helps with clearing drills when you don't know it's coming.

    Hope you get your issue worked out.
     

  3. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    I always buy my springs from http://www.gunsprings.com . Never had a problem with them in my guns. If you shoot a lot of +P ammo, I suggest getting a plus-power spring. But make sure your mag springs are in good shape. A strong recoil spring with a weak mag spring, and your gun may not properly feed.
     
  4. Match10

    Match10 Active Member

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    Right.... :? :sly:
     
  5. budder

    budder Moderator Staff Member

    It could be the mags. If you mean you tried GA Arms/Atlanta Arms GDHP ammo, it could be the ammo. If they were factory Gold Dots from Speer, I would assume it's not the ammo.
     
  6. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    I figured since it was CPO, the recoil spring would be brand new. Appears that wasn't the case. :evil:
     
  7. JeF4y

    JeF4y New Member

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    I had a whopping 30% FTF rate when I bought my P238 and took it out the first time. It was the miserably crappy Turkish ammo I was using though. Each primer had a perfect deep dimple dead in the center, but no pop.

    Bought a few hundred rounds of PMC and haven't had a single FTF since.
     
  8. ARMT Guy

    ARMT Guy Ordinary Average Guy

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    What is the caliber of your 229?

    Since you posted that it happened within around 50 rounds of the Atlanta ammo, I'd also be a tad suspicious of that, too. Once you get your new recoil spring in, ( check the guide rod to make sure it's not bent/damaged in some way, too ) first run factory ammo through it and see what happens. If no issues arise, then go back to the Atlanta stuffs and try them out again.
     
  9. Puffyfish

    Puffyfish New Member

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    Nice trick I like that! :righton:
     
  10. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    I do this, too. :D Its much easier to swallow "snap cap" FTF, than actually FTF with ammo with FMJ and HP self-defense ammo as well. :shattered:
     
  11. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    The FTF happened with .40 SW... I brought my .357 Sig barrel and ammo, but never got to it, because of time constraints on the training. We trained with quite a few weapons during about 2.5 hours.
     
  12. ARMT Guy

    ARMT Guy Ordinary Average Guy

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    That's a great pistol and a damn good barrel combo you got there. 8)

    I've got two 229s, ( .40 and .357 SIG ) that I CC'd for a good number of years, as well as running them through several handgun training courses. Do you remember what the recoil spring looked like when you first got the pistol? Did it look in new condition or used? I would be very surprised if they sent it out the door with an old recoil spring still in it. I picked up my CPO 226 with both .40 and .357 barrels a good number of years ago and I could hardly believe it wasn't NIB, it was in such beautiful shape.

    I agree with the guys at the shop you went to about the recoil spring. Put a new one in her once you receive the ones you ordered, inspect the guide rod itself and just to be sure, clean/inspect the chamber too. I doubt these FTFs you're having are because of a chamber issue or even bad mags, but it never hurts to check these areas over while you're waiting for your new recoil springs to come in.

    As you know, .40 and .357 SIG are relatively hot rounds and so the recoil spring should be replaced every 3K to 5K rounds.

    I have no experience with ammo from Atlanta Arms. Isn't this stuff just like GA Arms? Factory reloaded stuff? If you were to have any more FTFs with this ammo, I'd set those problem rounds aside and check them out. See if they're all from the same case manufacturer. I had an issue with some GA Arms 9mm FMJs, fired through my wife's SA EMP. IIRC, only rounds loaded in Winchester brass were causing FTFs when all of the other rounds from that same can of GA Arms were feeding just fine. It looked like the overal lenght of the Winchester rounds was just a tad bit longer.

    I know that having all these FTFs right off the bat with a new carry gun can certainly shake one's confidence, but I'm sure that once you get the new recoil spring installed on it, your 229 will run like a champ! :D
     
  13. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Nice! I like that you have two P229's, one for each caliber. 8) That's cool.

    I was told I should replace the recoil spring every 1K rounds or so. I ordered three factory recoil springs. They will be here next week.

    Yes, Atlanta Arms is just like factory reloaded stuff, right here in my home town.

    I've been carrying the P229 for about a year and half I'd say. Never had a FTF before, only flawless Sig goodness, so I was a bit surprised.

    It appears it was the recoil spring. I thought the recoil spring looked brand new when I got it, and I don't really have any reason to think it wasn't, other than these FTF.
     
  14. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Well, Justin and Taylor were right up at Crobar. Whatever he did to straighten out the recoil spring, and stretch it out seemed to work.

    I went out today and shot 50+ .40 SW Winchester White Box and 50+ .40 SW Atlanta Arms through it. It worked flawlessly. Then I did some .357 Sig Atlanta Arms through it. Man, I like that round. I really worked on trigger control and its getting better. Not perfect, but by gripping the pistol higher with my left hand, and feeling the reset as I pull the trigger again has really sped up my shooting just as everyone said it would. I think I'm getting just a little bit better as a pistol shooter. No more slapping the trigger, and I'm controlling recoil a whole lot better than I was before as well. Changing how high I gripped the pistol really helped of course. Makes sense. Also, feeling the reset and pulling made me a lot faster. All together its coming along nicely.

    I'm going to continue to work on it and try and get more accurate and with more speed as I continue to improve on the basics. Training has really been a lot of fun.

    Thanks for your help guys!

    I'm going to put a new factory recoil spring in when they come in next week, and I'll take it out again, and fire a bunch of rounds through it and see how she does.

    I'll report back and let you guys know how I did.
     
  15. ARMT Guy

    ARMT Guy Ordinary Average Guy

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    I'm glad your baby is up and running again! :righton:

    I'm don't recommend stretching springs out [-X , but at least it showed what the problem was. Get a new factory spring in it as soon as it arrives!

    SIG recommends 3K to 5K for recoil spring replacement. During my armorer courses, all of my instructors highly recommended replacing them at around 3k for .40 and especially .357 SIG.

    Have you looked into installing a SRT in your 229? The reset on stock SIGs is pretty long. If you get the chance, try the reset in one of the Elite versions.. NICE! 8)
     
  16. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Sweet! Well I am nowhere near 3k out of this gone. I'm going to replace it when they arrive next week, and then take it out shooting once again.

    I really want the SRT trigger. I agree, the reset on my stock P229 is really long. I'd LOVE :love: to shoot an Elite. Things are freaking bad butt and gorgeous to boot! :D
     
  17. samman23

    samman23 New Member

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    I'm not really familiar with tear down of a Sig and I realize you have diagnosed your problem, but are the firing pins easy to take out and clean?
     
  18. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    I've never tried. I don't know how to do it. Luckily, getting the slide off and taking releasing the barrel, recoil spring and guide rod are easy enough. :D
     
  19. ARMT Guy

    ARMT Guy Ordinary Average Guy

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    No. Especially on the SS one piece slides like the 229 has. It's nothing like taking most 1911 FPs out, for example.

    In theory, it's pretty straight forward, simple and doesn't involve many parts. However, getting the FP retaining pin out takes some work, ( without jacking up your slide ) and it's not a roll pin. More of a tapered, solid pin.

    SIG, ( and pretty much every experienced SIG armorer ) strongly advise against removing the FP unless you have a true need to do so, like broken firing pin/spring, etc. Otherwise, leave it alone and concentrate on the rest of the pistol.
     
  20. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Ok, so I finally felt ok today, so I changed out recoil springs, took her to the range today, HOLY CRAP! All the difference in the world. My shooting is now twice as fast and the recoil is in half!

    50 WWB and 50 AA, worked flawlessly!

    Is this normal? How can a new recoil spring decrease recoil so much?

    Now I'm really wishing I had done this a year and a half ago. Sweet!