New AP Ammo That Does Not Fit Current Definition of AP

Discussion in 'Ammo' started by Phil1979, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    CB1F3FBB-C1D6-4437-837B-99420D966E08.jpeg


     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  2. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    I want to be just as dangerous, or even more so, to criminals than they are to me.

    I'll be glad to own such ammo when available.

    Perhaps it will spur better development in ballistic vests.

    Advancements in weaponry and armor is a natural product in a free society.

    Remember when J. Edgar Hoover wrote a letter to try and get legislation to ban citizens from owning .357 Magnum revolvers?

    Too powerful for civilians that could be used against law enforcement, he said.
     

  3. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    If you want to bring them "religion" then do it quicker. Otherwise you risk being the one getting proselytized. :mrgreen:
     
  4. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Or just carry a rifle.
     
  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    As can hammers, ice picks, rolled up magazines, fists, etc. :shakehead:
     
  6. Florida Swamp Rat

    Florida Swamp Rat New Member

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    Pardon me for replying to your post so much later, but I found it the most poignant when searching through the forums. I am of the opinion that AP ammo should be legal when it is perfectly legal for known felons to purchase body armor. While I would be unlikely to carry any in public, it would be something I want to have a available for home defense. Due to owning enough land that my neighbors are fairly distant, I need not worry about an overpenetration causing harm to anyone but housebreakers.

    I have written to the BATFE on several occasions, all without response, requesting clarification of the NFA. They define AP ammo as having a core of steel, iron, tungsten, or similarly hard metal or metal alloy. And they define a manufacturer as anyone or any group/company that builds guns, gun parts, ammunition, and/or accessories for profit, which can be made either through monetary exchange or the trade of goods. They also state that it is prohibited to manufacture AP ammunition.

    Now, I already cast my own ammunition of lead or copper, and have a pretty good way to copper plate ammo to the degree that it causes no damage or leading to my barrels. I also work around facilities that render scrap into crucibles of molten metals to be recast for recycling purposes, which includes iron and steel alloys. Making molds capable of withstanding the temperatures of liquid steel isn't hard, but it's tedious. Constructing a small blast furnace out of maybe $150 bucks worth of stuff from Home Depot is doable, and I am familiar with both the theoretical design and function of one that I'm confident it will be safe. Add in a small crucible with trunions to connect to a cradle in a chain winch on overhead runners, tongs to tip it, a disposable throat to funnel the metal safely down to the molds while venting all the gas in the way without bubbles and spatters, with safety gear, and it would still run me around $500-$600 in total.

    The unanswered question regards what the NFA means when they say "manufacture AP ammo." Is the term "manufacture" just happenstance, or does it refer to the previous definition of a manufacturer? Because, if the latter is true, it could be logically assumed that a person who makes AP ammunition for their own posession and use, with no intent to profit through trade or sell it, or even give it away for free, is not breaking the law. Such a person wouldn't fit the definition of a manufacturer, and so not be subject to the prohibition on making AP ammunition.

    But that is common sense. Having worked with lawyers in the past, I know that law does not employ common sense, and it has such an utterly different concept of logic that it takes years to follow the manufactured sense of it. It's like trying to think your way through a corkscrew in a tornado without touching the sides.

    Consequently, my assumption regarding the legality of making AP ammo for oneself could be utterly incorrect in the eyes of the authorities. And until I can get confirmation from multiple authorities and counselors, I don't want to chance it. But we've all got to start somewhere, so attempting to start a simple dialogue on the subject seemed a better place than most.
     
  7. Schweisshund

    Schweisshund Well-Known Member

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    I though the 7.62x25 milsurp Curio and Relic ammo was armor piercing ammo and legal to buy?

     
  8. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    I have several Zastava M57s that are my 'truck guns' because of the milsurp ammo.
     
  9. Adamz

    Adamz New Member

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    Hey man how are you? I am a new member and I have couple questions if you can help me. So I never purchased ammo online in ga. What are the steps for it? And do u need to send your ID and what are a good websites to buy from? Thanks guys
     
  10. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    No special steps, it's just like buying anything else online. Right now the best website to buy from is any you manage to find that have it in stock.
     
    Adamz likes this.
  11. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    STOP.
    WRITING.
    LETTERS.

    If it's not clearly written out as illegal, it is legal. Unless you bring something to their attention enough that they decide to pass an unconstitutional regulation redefining an existing law to fit your circumstances.
     
  12. Adamz

    Adamz New Member

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    What best websites you recommend brother? And do i need to send them my id like when you buy electronic cigarettes online or just pay and get ship to my residence?
     
  13. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

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    I think I sent a copy of my DL.
     
  14. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    I've bought online from many places and never had to provide a ID.
     
    Savannah Dan likes this.
  15. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    SG ammo is usually my go-to but there are some ammo search engines out there where you can find ammo by price, type, and stock and get a list of sites to check. No ID needs to be provided.
     
  16. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    "Best" is whoever has what you're looking for in stock at a price you're willing to pay. This should keep you busy for a while. Copy them into your "favorites" folder. This isn't an inclusive list by a long shot and I've actually purchased from only 3 or 4 of them. You'll find more dealers as you continue in your "internet experience." :mrgreen:

    https://www.ableammo.com/
    https://aimsurplus.com/
    https://all-in-general.com/shop/
    https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/
    https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
    https://ammo.com/
    https://www.ammoman.com/
    https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/
    https://ammunitionstore.com/
    https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/
    https://www.bulkammo.com/
    https://www.gtdist.com/
    https://www.jgsales.com/index.php
    https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Default.asp
    https://www.luckygunner.com/
    https://www.massammo.com/
    https://www.midwayusa.com/
    https://www.natchezss.com/
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/
    https://www.sgammo.com/
    https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/
    https://www.streichers.com/
    https://www.targetsportsusa.com/

    If you're looking for a specific item this search engine will be useful.
    https://ammoseek.com/

    Of course, you can always go to GunBroker if you enjoy the thrill of getting raped particularly when idiots are more than willing to pay double and triple the normal prices in times of shortages. Such as now. :lol:
    https://www.gunbroker.com/
     
  17. Florida Swamp Rat

    Florida Swamp Rat New Member

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    O.
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    THANKS.
     
  18. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    Ha, in the NFA community letter writing is HIGHLY frowned upon. No need to educate the ATF to loopholes unless your marketing a commercial product.