New Address for ATF Form 4's

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by SheriffOconee, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. SheriffOconee

    SheriffOconee New Member

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  2. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    This sounds like a good of a thread to ask this question as any other.

    Regarding NFA items.

    I am contemplating purchasing a Short barreled shotgun as my first NFA item. I live in DeKalb. I am reasonably certain the my CLEO, acting Chief Marinelli will sign my Form 4, however, I do not want to bother with that effort and the fingerprinting that is required as well (half day off work if you live in DeKalb).

    I am forming a trust with myself as the benefactor... I suck at legalese, but it's a 20 dollar willmaker program I bought, basically.

    Let me get this straight, since this day is not far off. Like 3 weeks.

    Tell my FFL I want a particular SBS.
    Pay for it.
    Get copy of Form 4 from them?
    Send copy of Form 4, along with trust paperwork and my signature in appropriate boxes along with check for 5$.
    Wait.
    Receive paperwork, pick up SBS and grin.

    Am I off? I'm new to NFA stuff, and I can't get straight answers from anyone except from people on the internet. Wait.. this IS the internet. :lol: I just want to do it right.. the first time.
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    All this to avoid a half day off work?
     
  4. SheriffOconee

    SheriffOconee New Member

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    My family has a trust that was set up for another purpose years ago, and I understand that trust ownership is a option, but I have done little research. I have, however, seen paperwork rejected by ATF for a variety of reasons. Our local class 3 dealer seem to have worked out the paperwork bugs, I am sure your dealer would be a great source of info, on trusts as well as other issues
     
  5. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Well, that and the fact I would have to ask yet another person for permission to buy something I have the constitutional right to possess. It's bad enough I have the ATF and the Dekalb probate allowing me to purchase a gun and to carry one, respectively.
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    No, you don't.


    I know we'd all like to think so. I know James Madison and Samuel Adams and Tench Coxe all would have thought so, but this has not been a constitutional right under either the state or federal constitutions for many decades.

    :cry:

    Just being honest.

    Federal prison awaits those who doubt what I say.

    I see things as they are and not just as I would like them to be.

    A little reading?

    http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... php?t=1364

    :cry:
     
  7. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I've read up on the trust route and that is what I will do when I have the disposable income for some toys.

    That'll be after I'm done with college.
     
  8. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Interesting... even better reason to go the trust route, eh?

    On another note... what about as far as C&R licenses? I sent Marinelli a copy of my C&R application with the understanding that he was my CLEO. The reason I figured that he would sign any NFA request I had was that after I submitted my C&R app to him, his seceratary gave me a call soon thereafter to make sure I didn't need any other information from the Chief (yes, I did submit it TO him), and seemed like they really 'wanted' my paperwork to go through... or at the very least make sure it went through correctly I guess.

    I got my C&R license OK, but now I'm wondering if I should have sent the copy to sheriff Brown. I figured sheriffs were jailers and not Chief of any kind of Law Enforcement... at least that's what my thought process was... at the time, after reading the application packet, it seemed right? :shock:
     
  9. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    I am surely in DeKalb city limits. I figured CLEO by who responds if I call 911. Dekalb PD responds so therefore, according to my logic, they are my Law Enforcement Agency and Chief Marinelli is in charge of them.

    Personally, I like the trust route because you can make out a living trust for about 20 bucks. I am looking at willmaker. Getting prints is I think 5$ in Dekalb, passport photos 7$ at walmart and my valuable time wasted driving when I could be making a trust on my computer is worth at least the remainder.

    As far as trusts.. Sure, it never really 'belongs' to you, but so what. If you are married, you can designate your wife as a beneficiary and as so, in your trust, she can take posession of your NFA items if you die.. without input from the probate or any other .gov agency that will divide your stuff up and take a cut for their time... and she wouldn't need to do the CLEO, prints, photos.. either. If you are not married, you save the hassle of reporting to one CLEO after another until you find one who will sign off even though his signature means basically nothing. I don't plan on buying a full auto AK, just a SBS or make my AR a SBR... not like I'll have thousands invested.. hell, if I die, I don't care... if I move to a state that isn't NFA friendly, I'll sell it to the local Class 3 shop and lose a couple hundred bucks...

    But I'm no expert in the process so I may have it all wrong... I'm pretty close to doing this so I'll keep the board informed. The state and the .gov in general may say that it's not my 'right' to have firearms as Malum said, but I'm certainly going to avoid asking them if at all possible!
     
  10. SheriffOconee

    SheriffOconee New Member

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    As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases.

    The quote above is from ATF's website.
     
  11. SheriffOconee

    SheriffOconee New Member

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    No, law enforcement officers can be compelled to sign the law enforcement certification under Federal or State law. However, ATF will not approve an application to make or transfer a firearm on ATF Forms 1 or 4 unless the law enforcement certification is completed by an acceptable law enforcement official who has signed the certification in the space indicated on the form. See Question M18.

    Also from ATF's website in regards to whether or not a CLEO can be compelled to sign the form 1 or form 4
     
  12. SheriffOconee

    SheriffOconee New Member

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    I have a good bit of experience signing form 4's as the Sheriff of Oconee. ATF expects the form to be completed correctly, each block or blank filled in and error free. Once, while I was away from the office, my Chief Deputy signed a Form 4 for someone to obtain an NFA weapon. When the
    Form got to ATF, the applicant was notified that I had to send a letter to verify that my CD had the authority to sign the Form. No problem, however it caused a slight delay in processing. If you get a person in the above listed catagory to sign it, you are good to go.
    For instance, if you live in Doraville, then the Chief of Police in Doraville is authorized to sign. I submit than unless ATF has a problem with it, then the Chief of Police of DeKalb is also authorized to sign.
    I would also suggest that if you live in a jursidiction that the CLEO will not sign, then a Superior Court Judge is authorized by ATF regs to sign. IF you have a family lawyer, that might be a good task for him or her....see if a Superior Court Judge would sign a Form 4. Asking doesn't hurt.
    MOST Class 3 dealers will know who will and who will not sign. However, research by a determined consumer may find someone else authorized who is willing to sign as well.