Nevada College System Wants to Arm Faculty[

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Macktee, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

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    from Las Vegas Now:
    http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story ... =menu102_2

    Jonathan Humbert, Reporter

    Nevada College System Wants to Arm Faculty

    June 22, 2007 10:03 PM

    The University of Nevada system is one step closer to letting professors, faculty and staff carry guns on campus.

    It's a controversial plan that the Board of Regents agreed to on Thursday. Some students and staff are concerned it may not be the best idea.

    The tragedy of Virginia Tech is still fresh in the minds of many in the collegiate world and campus police departments from Reno to Las Vegas are trying to find a better solution. But students are dumbfounded by the plan to arm teachers.

    "So there would be no reason for a teachers to run around, just try to play hero with a gun," said Chris James, junior.


    Still the Board of Regents plan would allow faculty take a 21-week course in Carson City. That class would cost more than $3,000 per person and the universities would pick up the tab. But it would use a legal loophole to essentially deputize the employee. That way they wouldn't break the law.

    Right now it's a Class E felony to carry a gun on campus. Students like Zac Ingersoll have mixed feelings. As a former member of the military, he knows training is important, but 21 weeks of training might not be able to stop a Virginia Tech-like attack.

    "It may get someone who just on a whim would do it, but most of the time, I don't think it'll do much," said Zac Ingersoll , junior. Both Ingersoll and Chris James say the issue isn't about teachers with guns, it's about loose campus security and the lack of officers on patrol.

    "It would just be too crazy with teachers carrying guns around on campus. One of them might blow up and you never know what might happen if they start shooting," James said. Ingersoll agrees, saying training should be left to the professionals.

    "And if they're trained in the proper response procedures to it, then I think a proper response is better than manpower," Ingersoll said.

    And if the unthinkable happens on campus, these students want the real officers to be on the front lines. The plan will come up for a final vote later in the summer. Campus police also presented their changes for an active shooter scenario.

    Campuses all across the nation have been updating their rules and students and faculty say this plan could jeopardize any situation, and even make a shooting more dangerous.
     
  2. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Training should be left to the professionals? How many times has that gone wrong? :roll:
     

  3. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    hehehe

    Looking back at the professors that I have know at three different institutions of higher learning, it would be very humorous to think of some them as being armed or even trying to shoot a pistol.
     
  4. Mobster989

    Mobster989 New Member

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    Hahaha! That's funny. Maybe these students should watch the footage of Columbine, VT, and every other school shooting over again. The cops don't run into an active shooter scenario. They wait for bad guys to stop shooting before they run in with all their guys in body armor and armed with assault weapons. The police waited at least an hour after Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold offed themselves. This isn't like they were on their way or it was only one patrol car parked outside waiting for backup. No, this was SWAT and a bunch of police officers.

    Then what happens at VT? South Korean nutjob starts blasting kids, where are the cops at? They definitely weren't in Norris Hall stopping the shooter. Which is better to have? Trained professionals who aren't there or armed amatuers who are there?

    I think that any place that doesn't allow me to be armed doesn't deserve my business, that includes college and schools. If I have to choose between being armed and being educated I'll take my guns.
     
  5. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Columbine changed response tactics and training to such situations.

    Your analysis of police actions at VT's Norris Hall is completely off. Please go read a time line of the response and you will see that officers responded directly to scene and tried to enter the building. They found the doors chained closed and had to breech them. They were in the building running towards the shooting when the guy offed himself.
     
  6. Mobster989

    Mobster989 New Member

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    Good thing they stopped him after he wacked 33 people. :roll: Bottom line is that the cops cannot protect you and the Supreme Court has ruled that they don't have any obligation to protect you. Why the hell would you want to give up a means to protect yourself, especially when no one else can guarantee your safety?
     
  7. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Your implication was that the VT cops stood around and did nothing, and that is far from the truth. Put the blame where it should be, which is directly on the head of the murderer.

    Yes, if there had been armed citizens in those buildings, perhaps that could have stopped the attack. Several people bull rushing him and beating him to death could have stopped it as well, but that didn't happen either.
     
  8. M249

    M249 New Member

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    :roll:

    I wonder if reporters realize that a majority of the military members' primary job function doesn't involve using a firearm*, and if it did, how does carrying an offensive weapon in military service relate to carrying a defensive weapon on a college campus.

    It's a good start. Now the state just needs to extend that decision to lawfully carrying students, and repeal the no guns on campus law.

    ETA: Mobster, while you're certainly right about the SCOTUS ruling the police have no obligation to protect you, I think you're being overly critical of the VT police. It doesn't take long to kill 33 people in a confined environment.

    *Marines excepted.
     
  9. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    In the days following 9/11, the Navy Supply Corp School in Athens hired police officers to man the gates as the naval personnel weren't trained in the use of firearms.
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Legacy 38, I saw news footage showing some guy's camera phone, and there were officers standing around outside while gunshots could be heard in the background. Now, it could be that there were so many officers that there were multiple officers to just stand around while others were breaching. It could be.

    But the real question is (and I know you agree with me, so I am not trying to start anything), why should any person have to await rescue from anybody else, when they are willing and able to protect themselves?

    Remember my post on the one minute response time? The guy is still dead.
     
  11. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    The more I hear out of college kids . . . :shakehead:
     
  12. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    Sad. My only question as a student would be "can I pay the $3000, take the course & carry myself?"....
     
  13. wsweeks2

    wsweeks2 New Member

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    I'll have to agree with legacy on this one.
     
  14. Cavediver

    Cavediver New Member

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    So, do you thnk this reporter went out of his way to avoid responses that agree with the policy, or did he just leave them out of the story? It's hard for me to believe that he did not talk to anyone that thinks this is a good idea.

    Then again, the press stopped unbiased coverage long ago.
     
  15. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    I'm quite certain there was a perimeter team.

    It's been a while since I have read it, but I do believe the officers were on scene in four minutes and found the doors chained and had to breach them to make entry, which took a few more minutes. The officers were in the building when the perp offed himself.

    Even had the doors been free and clear, the death toll would have still been high.
     
  16. Mobster989

    Mobster989 New Member

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    Maybe I am being a little over critical but I think people aren't looking at the big picture. You've got these cops with all this surplus military hardware that didn't do crap for those 33 people. Body armor and assault rifles in the hands of trained professionals didn't do any good for those students and professors. SO WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR IT?
     
  17. M249

    M249 New Member

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    Policemen are like firefighters, and can only respond after the fact. As I mentioned earlier, shooting 33 people in a sizable lecture hall of unarmed people is not difficult.

    I for one, am not keen on police officers going in "guns blazing." Despite my issues with officers that use the badge and gun as a personal token of power, I think the majority of them are good folks and deserve all the protection we can reasonably provide.

    The real issue hear is not the police response. The issue is why were these students deprived of their inalienable right to keep and bear arms.
     
  18. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Just exactly what do you mean by "didn't do crap"? They were responding to the scene when the guy offed himself. I'm quite certain that had they known the guy was going to go to the building and commit mass murder that they would have stopped him.

    By your logic, we don't need a military because it didn't stop 9/11. After all, the USAF has all of those wonderful jet fighters. Why didn't they shoot the planes down before they crashed into the buildings? Those silly policemen and firemen that ran into those buildings and all of those people would still be alive today.
     
  19. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    Police did all they could, they cant predict future events. All the reports I have heard point to the fact the PD did all they could. In the amount of time they had to respond and do their job, it was over.

    This was a well thought out event. The kid even had a package sent in the mail after the 1st event on campus. But this isnt the issue.

    This is the issue as previously mentioned above:

    "The real issue hear is not the police response. The issue is why were these students deprived of their inalienable right to keep and bear arms."

    Thats what I believe to be the main focus. If we (licensed citizens, including teachers that wish to participate) could carry on school property than that could have been the difference.
     
  20. Mobster989

    Mobster989 New Member

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    What do I mean? I mean all that training and equipment didn't much help those people when they needed it. A four minute response time is very fast and they still couldn't do anything to save those people. They can't completely protect us no matter how much training, equipment, speed, and intelligence they have. I'm wondering why we need to arm cops with assault rifles, aside from limited SWAT units. My beef isn't with cops it's with the militarization of the police force.

    I agree 100%. Except that 21 weeks is a bit excessive for training to carry on campus. I'm not sure many students or professors would be willing to do that. Would you?