Need Rifle Purchase Advice

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by shamalama, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. shamalama

    shamalama New Member

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    There is a chance that the Democrats will take all three houses of the federal government in the 2008 elections. If that happens I could easily imagine a reinstatement of some sort of Assault/Scary Weapons Ban.

    The current hideous piece of legislation, HR 1022, would try to save the civilized world from the horrors of the AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, M1 Carbine, Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AUG, Ruger Mini-14, Tavor, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Uzi, Galil, Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, and Galil Sniper Rifle.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022

    So, just in case, I intend on being ready to purchase one of the above listed horrors 468 days from today - the day after the election.

    I know absolutely nothing about long arms. My son, the Marine, is wanting an AR-10/AR-15, knowing he will have to shell out 1000-1200 clams for it, something that would be eclipsed only by the cost of the divorce settlement should I try to do the same - I work for Delta, and am still "happily" earning 40% less than I did 5 years ago, so the budget is very important.

    While I like the "coolness" factor of the AK clones I keep reading of their less-than-wonderful accuracy, even though the round it fires is plenty serious enough. The Thompson also has wonderful "coolness" but I want something more than an oversized 1911 for $1000.

    I would drool over a new Israeli Tavor, but I stand a better chance of making a baby with Jessica Alba.

    Absolutely no Kel-Tec Sub Rifle or Hi-Point Carbine.

    The Mini-14 has always been a personal favorite, but I wanted more oomph coming out of the barrel than .223. There is an older Mini 30 at my local store, in great condition, for $525 that looks promising.

    OK, enough blabbering. I would like a genuine, serious, rifle, one that the government says I should not own because it's so scary, one that could perform its function well if ever called upon to do so. I would appreciate any and all opinions.
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Mini 14 was not on the LAST list, because it did not look "Scary" enough for Dianne Feinstein to notice it.

    Sorry, you must pick something uglier.
     

  3. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Well-timed thread for me. I'm wanting one of each:

    - Post WWII M1 with a .308 bbl or do the conversion myself
    - M14 (No Chinese M14s, although I hear you can toughen these up to be a reliable battle rifle)
    - FAL Metric

    and possibly an HK91 with a folding or retractable stock for if we have to leave the house with no real hope of returning.

    For CQB I'm looking for input/advice on what will make a good home defender/urban warfare/road warrior carbine.
     
  4. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    All of them will do most of what you want to do. Even the worst offenders will hold two minute of felon (MOF). Thats about 8 MOA.

    You seem to want a real rifle cal. carbine so that throws out all the pistol cal. toys.

    The first thing I would do is choose the caliber.
    Think long and hard about not choosing .223. Its cheap, easy to come by, and easy to shoot.
    In .223 my first choice would be an AR-15. Even with all its problems it will work if you take care of it. I have a Mini-14 and its okay but they have accuracy problems and factory mags are not available.

    .308 is a real rifle cartridge. It will let you know every time you pull the trigger. It is also cost prohibitive and you can carry at least 2 .223 rounds to every .308 round.
    Frankly I would prefer a Styer Scout in this caliber but thats a bolt action and not on the EBR list.

    7.62 x 39 is a compromise between the two previous calibers. It has better penetration than .223 but doesn't cost as much as .308.
    Sometimes 7.62x39 ammo can be hard to get.
    Avoid the Mini-30 it has the same problems as the Mini-14.
    The SKS are a real deal in this caliber, but you give up the detachable box magazine.

    Make sure you come to the next shoot and try them all.
     
  5. M249

    M249 New Member

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    If buying all is not an option... AR-15.
     
  6. jp233

    jp233 hu huh, you said "Member"

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    AK

    hands down.

    You can get a good, reliable, solid AK for around $400.... $500 at the most (for nothing fancy or rare, obviously there are $800-1500 AK's out there).

    Then spend $160 for 1000 rounds of ammo, and maybe another $50 for a couple mags.

    Then you're set.... 30 round steel mags are plentiful, ammo is too.

    I like AR's but their price and the lack of available ammo at the moment means I have none.
     
  7. jp233

    jp233 hu huh, you said "Member"

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    oh yeah for all the nay-sayers (who are AR lovers) and just blab about accuracy, I can routinely blast a body silhouette at 200 yards using iron sights with one of my AK's (it does have a 20" bbl though).

    my Century Yugo M70AB2, 16" bbl, the first time I ever shot it (read: zero trigger time with the Tapco G2 trigger it comes with), I did:

    - a 2.5" ring with 10 rounds at 50 yards from a sandbag rest, while sitting

    - a 6" ring with 10 rounds at 50 yards standing, the last 5 rounds being shot quickly

    Measure 6 inches across your chest... yeah, a 30 cal bullet would rip up a torso pretty good I venture a guess.

    At 100 yards, I can plaster a silhouette with open sights. No need for 17 devices hanging off the forearm of an AK, the irons work fine for body-sized targets. Granted the paper badguys aren't shooting back, but it works fine for "minute-of-badguy" at 100 yards.

    AR's are great, but for $800 you can have a dead-nuts-never-jam AK, plus a stack of mags and a pile of ammo. And throw in a $15 Chinese chest rig to complete the Commie stature :) :lol:
     
  8. Ashe

    Ashe New Member

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    I'm seriously pondering getting a 6.5 Grendel barrel to make my HD AR, It's a great caliber, and the ammo isn't even that much more expensive than the .223 anymore.

    Either way I'm going to be building my AR in a couple of months. you can build for alot less money than buy and get as good if not better results. Esp. with all the crappy AR companies out there now.

    I also intend to buy a reloading kit and supplies before the election, just incase.

    As for accuracy, I already have a 20" AR and I can get sub MOA all day prone, and easily hit a 12" target while standing at 100 yards using Iron sights. Throw my Aimpoint on and I've hit 5 seperate targets 2X each at ranges from 15Yards to 200 Yards and seperated along 120* of arc within 30 seconds.

    I've never had any issues with the AR's gas impingment system, Not a single jam from over 1000 rounds fired. I'm more likely to have an issue with the round not firing due to a bad primer.

    Some advantages of the AR.
    Cost and availability of parts.
    Ease of repair, anyone can easily repair/replace anything on an AR with simple tools and a vise.
    A bolt hold open system, not having to recharge after loading a magazine is nice.
    Interchangeability, I can swap from a 20" bull Barrel to a 16" Carbine in less than 30 seconds using the same lower reciever.


    I've fired AK's before and while I don't hate them I don't love them. The one thing I really dislike is how the safety works on them, I've seen people cut themselves taking the safety off. And taking my firing hand away from the trigger to safe/unsafe is not a selling point for me either
     
  9. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    I've always been interested in an AK for a few reasons. But, there's a huge selection of AKs out there, so which ones are preferred and why? I'm looking for (in order of importance):

    Reliability - it must work under heavy demand, everytime
    Ease of use - quick to load, clear, charge, and fire.
    Price and ammo price - Price is a concern (under $1000), but I want quality more than bargain. Ammo price and availability are fairly big concerns.

    Thanks for the advice so far, and I hope there's a lot more advice and opinions to come.
     
  10. M249

    M249 New Member

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    I'm not knockin' AKs at all. *I* don't like 'em, but that doesn't mean I think nobody should like 'em. However, if you solicit *my* opinion, I'm going to recommend what *I* like.

    Hell, I say "Buy both!" We need as many Sport Utility Rifles/Homeland Defense Rifles as we can get! :minigun:

    ETA: I'm interested in the AK info as well. I do intend to buy one, but not until I get my:

    Pistol TBD
    20" RRA Upper
    16" LMT Carbine
    Remington 700 .308
    Benelli SBE
    CZ 452
    Ruger 10/22

    \:D/
     
  11. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    AR

    All the cool kids have one 8)
     
  12. fallison

    fallison New Member

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    AK. 100 million peasants can't be wrong
     
  13. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Mud huts. 100 million peasants can't be wrong. :D 8)
     
  14. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

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    I'd suggest either an AK (personally, I'd get the AK-103), or an FN/FAL in .308.

    I like rounds that turn cover into mere concealment. :twisted:
     
  15. zookeper

    zookeper Active Member

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    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    DSA-58OSW - a select-fire "sawed off" FAL clone made by DS Arms (USA)
     
  16. jp233

    jp233 hu huh, you said "Member"

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    from my research, I haven't been able to break $575-600 in building an AR (del-ton kit, etc). I think $600 is a good number for a ROCK BOTTOM PRICE that you can even build an AR.

    In contrast, you can buy a $325 WASR and, if its a good one, not even have to deal with mag fit or canted sights/gas tube. I've seen plenty of WASR's that fit into this category for under $400.

    So let's say you get a good reliable AK for $400. Then $160 shipped for 1000 rounds, and you have $40 leftover to buy more mags. There's your $600 which would've gotten you an AR kit. If there is anything the AK beats the AR on all day long, it is price of parts/rifles/mags/ammo.



    AV8R to answer your question, any decent AK will be super reliable. Don't worry about clearing stuff, it just doesn't happen much. Ammo is not going anywhere, the 7.62x39 round will be around forever. Ease of loading? Rock and lock the mag, yoink the bolt back and let it slam shut. Done deal


    I could give a rats ass about the safety on an AK. Dont use it really. But that's just me.
     
  17. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Thanks to all who've chimed in. I'm leaning towards an AK since I already have my eye on a nice SKS than I plan on getting real REAL soon. Same ammo would be easy on the wallet and tactically smart.

    Now let's talk about REAL rifles. I have a crush on the FAL. What I don't like about it is all the damn parts that make up the FAL. M1/M1A and the M14 being a lot more simple (and more accurate?) is probably what I will go with first for .308 flavor. Any further opinions on rifles?