ND v AD

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Nemo, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    As one or 2 here may know, IMHO, there is no such thing as an AD.

    Nemo

    https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/our-dishonest-media-guns/

     
  2. rabbivj

    rabbivj My Name is Inigo Montoya

    4,025
    13
    38
    yeah exactly, theres no such thing as an AD...
     

  3. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

    3,596
    30
    48
    "it just went off" - no, it didn't.
     
  4. Myright

    Myright Freedom Loving Citizen

    109
    0
    16
    That was certainly negligent.
     
  5. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

    847
    120
    43
    In the vast majority of cases, what are called AD's are really ND's.

    But it is incorrect to say that AD's are not possible. They are possible.

    Mechanical devices can and sometimes do fail, all on their own, even while being used correctly, as they were designed to be used. And completely unforeseeable things can and do happen.

    I could list a bunch of hypothetical situations where a firearm discharged through no fault of the operator. Because I am a mechanical engineer, I understand how machinery operates, and I am well aware of those pesky little things called design errors, manufacturing defects and faulty material.

    Those 3 things (and other possibilities) can cause a firearm to discharge through no fault of the operator. Now, if that operator is following all of the rules of gun safety, then it is extremely unlikely that anyone will be hit when that firearm accidentally fires.

    Just trying to clarify that I do agree that most "AD's" are really ND's. But to say that an AD is entirely impossible is just plain silly.
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    Color me silly then.

    Nemo
     
  7. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

    847
    120
    43
    In the situations I described (mechanical failure), somebody was at fault, but not the operator. So, getting absolutely literal, every "AD" really is a ND, even if the operator did absolutely nothing wrong.

    How's that?
     
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    Then the operator did not examine, clean, care for, inspect his weapon in sufficient detail or thoroughly enough to make sure there were no potential problems with any parts to cause a discharge.

    Nemo
     
  9. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

    847
    120
    43
    You apparently didn't understand what I said. I said nothing about cleaning and inspecting, which everyone is responsible for doing.

    What if a part wasn't made to design tolerance? What if a part had an invisible crack? What if the engineer who designed it made a miscalculation and the part failed because of that? You seem to be implying that the operator would be at fault then.
     
  10. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

    3,596
    30
    48
    I stand corrected. I remember a East European milsurp handgun I owned, internet research revealed DO NOT USE DECOCK WITH ROUND IN CHAMBER. Sometime they will "just go off" with no trigger pressure. :sad:
     
  11. phaed

    phaed Active Member

    9,360
    2
    38
    i remember reading years ago about a computerized weapons platform that allegedly "accidentally went off", someone citing it as an AD example. choosing that weapon platform was not an accident, and every man is responsible for his choices.

    if you choose a shady gun, that's still your fault. there are plenty of old guns out there that aren't that safe and you're responsible for it if you choose one. the chances of it happening with modern, quality weapons, that have been tested by large sample populations is virtually nil.

    now, you might want to pick at that word, "virtually." well, it's only virtually impossible that all the air molecules in the room you're in work their way to the side you aren't on, and you suffocate and die. does it happen? maybe once in a googleplex years over an infinite number of universes. but, the probability is close enough to zero to just say "never." as an engineer, you know this. you guys are very familiar with significant digits.
     
  12. Glockenator

    Glockenator Active Member

    847
    120
    43
    Uh, I wasn't the one picking at nits. I stated simple facts, as clearly as I knew how. I don't buy shady guns, I try my best to understand how they work, I check them out (but I don't typically send out every part to have magnafuluxed, and ask the manufacturer for design drawings so I can verify the functionality and hire a PE to verify everything and sign off on it.), and I verify that they operate correctly and watch them carefully, regardless of the manufacturer.

    My point was, it is possible to have an accidental discharge, even while following all of the gun safety rules. "Possible" isn't the same thing as "likely".

    Ever have a car part fail within the first 30, 50 or, say 100k miles? I have, and I don't typically buy vehicles from questionable manufacturers, but, as they say, "**** happens". That was my point.

    And I give you kudos for using punctuation, and not simply blurting from a cell phone with a worthless 3-5 word reply, but do you have something against a Shift key? :) (if you want to play the nitpicking game ).
     
  13. Squid

    Squid Gun pecan

    308
    46
    28
    https://ruger.com/dataProcess/markIVRecall/

    "Ruger recently discovered that all Mark IVâ„¢ pistols (including 22/45â„¢ models) manufactured prior to June 1, 2017 have the potential to discharge unintentionally if the safety is not utilized correctly. In particular, if the trigger is pulled while the safety lever is midway between the "safe" and "fire" positions (that is, the safety is not fully engaged or fully disengaged), then the pistol may not fire when the trigger is pulled. However, if the trigger is released and the safety lever is then moved from the mid position to the "fire" position, the pistol may fire at that time."
     
  14. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,605
    1,703
    113
    Sounds like Remington's problems with their Walker trigger/safety system on model 700s.
     
  15. mygunstoo

    mygunstoo Active Member

    2,227
    2
    38

    Is this real?

    Let me see, anything that is not used correctly could be dangerous. Wow, where is the bubble wrap?