I have had some interesting times talking with my sister about firearms in the past. Last Christmas I was told I was not to come to her house with the family if I was going to carry my weapon. After some negotiation, she and I worked out an out of sight, out of mind agreement where if I deep concealed, she wouldnt ask if I had it. She is one that I have had other political issues with as well because she is ultra right and seems to lean into statist, where I am very Libertarian and do not lean right or left. Below is from a conversation I had with her through a chat this morning. Any suggestions on how I might be able to continue this with her? Note... She is very religious, so don't try to attack the fact that God and Jesus were brought up in the discussion.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms My advice: Stick to talking about the weather, family, etc. My Father is a moron when it comes to family, so I stick to talking about the weather, guns, and politics. If I don't keep the conversation confined to those things then we wouldn't be talking much (or, I wouldn't be talking to him much).
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Maybe it would be a better world if there were no weapons, as long as there were also no violent, dangerous, insane, or depraved people, either. But that is not the world we live in. God made those kinds of people also. He loves them, but that does not mean He wants them to prevail over His other children. He wants us to be able to protect ourselves and those we love from them, and He gave us the wherewithall to devise the ability to do so. Therefore, according to this belief, I carry to defend myself and those I love, which includes my non-gun-loving sister. I respect your right to your viewpoint, but this is mine. Then, like AV8R says, talk about something else.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms I hate to be blunt, but when people start using the "I don't want anyone to have guns, I wish they'd never been invented" line, only a real-world experience is going to change their minds. Priest, I think you presented your sister with a logical, level headed argument. Unfortunately her response was wishy-washy, pie in the sky. She refuses to acknowledge that any good can come from a weapon. Have you ever used this approach? - If you believe in God and a concept of a universal good, that "good" is a choice and all good stems from God, you must also believe in the existence of evil, the antithesis of good (how could "good" be measured unless a polar opposite exists?) - Evil can exist without good, but because "good" is a choice, good cannot exist without evil - Evil seeks to subvert & destroy that which is good - If the good refuse to defend themselves against evil, evil will reign - Thus weapons, when used to defend good against evil, are a tool of the good and serve to preserve the concept of what is good and Godly After going through this, I just think your sister hasn't fully acknowledged the reality of evil. If she had, she would have no problem with good people being vigilant & defending against it. Instead, she's hung up solely on the idea that guns kill people. I hope you can convince her with logic before something evil convinces her through brute force.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms When I speak to non-gun people, I often refer to a gun as a tool. The tool can have multiple purposes such as target shooting and self defense. How the tool is used always depends on the hands it is in. Some will use the tool for good, others will use it to commit crimes. But yeah, when it comes to someone who says "I wish guns didn't exist".... I'd find it a little harder to respond with any kind of legitimate response. Maybe something along the lines of "well, airplanes shouldn't exist either then, cause they were once used to fly into the world trade center towers."
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms You can't rationalize with a person's irrational position on something. If someone has actual thought about it and decided that they don't want to own a gun because they don't feel that they can manage the responsibility, won't take the time to learn and practice how to use it properly, etc. I have no problem with that. If they think something like 'God doesn't like guns and you're going to hell if you touch one', I'm not going to discuss the issue further with them - their position is based on some ideology/ideologue perspective and there is no constructive argument to be had there. I think that you're wasting your time discussing it with her.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms If they could use logic and reason to see your point of view, you wouldn't be having the discussion in the first place!
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms maybe you should talk to her about something she is more comfortable with, such as flowers and cupcakes.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms If she's not telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, that is as much as you can hope for out of free will and consideration for/from others. If or when her views change on gun ownership or if/when she has further questions about it, she'll track you down and ask. Until then, you are just some crazy standing out in the street screaming "the sky is blue" and she really isn't interested in the color at the moment and just finds the proclamations interrupting. OTOH, if she is ever around and you can propose shooting skeet or something, that might be a good starting point to getting her to play with firearms...
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Not sure which way you want to go. On one hand you love the person, so you want to educate them, on the other hand you love the person, so you want to let them live happily in line with their own views. If you want to try and further justify the point of God and guns, there is a sermon I heard last year by a preacher by the name of John Weaver. Very smart guy, very well spoken. He did a sermon specifically on guns and the use of them. You were exactly right where you were leading with the "told to sell their cloaks to by a sword". He explained not only do we have a right, but we have a duty to protect ourselves as Christians. How much further will God's word spread if you are lying dead in a pool of your own blood, because you thought that you were meant to accept your fate of a home intruder or whatever taking your life. It makes sense to me, that if a person presents them self as a threat to me or my family, then I don't only have the right to protect them, but it is my duty to do so as a servant to the Lord. He had a ton of sermons on this website, so I couldn't locate the exact sermon. I heard it at a L.O.T.S. meeting in South Georgia about a year ago. Check out some of his other sermons. http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?c ... se&SortBy=
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms You're a better man than I, Priest. My sister and I would never have had this conversation because we wouldn't be on speaking terms had she presented me with the ultimatum your sister did about Christmas.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms I think the resolution came because Mom stepped in. I was staying at my parents house for the few days I was there. Mom asked what I was doing when packing up my bags and I told her that since the family was doing Christmas at Karyns house, and I was not welcome there, I was going to drive to McDonough where my Grandparents were celebrating Christmas and do so with them. The resolution came quickly after that. Karyn is a sheeple.... she has been for a long time. Too long teaching in Gvt schools I guess.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Dang... she had 45 minutes at work to message you back and forth? I need to work she works so I can have that kind of free time. Govt workers get all the perks. I don't know that I could have that conversation with my family. My Mom is an idiot about politics and I avoid any discussion about it all costs because it will just turn sour. It isn't that hard to find out information about politicians. You handled it well and obviously have more patience than me.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms I feel your pain man. I have two parents and a few friends that are exactly like this. I don't have any wisdom for you, but you're not alone.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Priest, you are handleing this quite well. Kiss you sister on the cheek when you see her, tell her you love her, and stear clear of any mention of guns, God, or politics. Leave it at that. Until necessity changes her mind, and the change in opinion is hers, nothing will change.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms If you notice.... she brought every single part up. She started the conversation, she brought up the "wasted vote", she brought up guns... She also knows I will not be silent when directly confronted with a "you are wrong" attitude like she did with the libertarian thing in this, or with weapons in the past.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms I simply won't "debate" issues with people that will not listen, consider opposing arguments, and honestly evaluate their position on their position. And I have no problem telling them that.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Yup, I noticed. But, you have to decide if you want peace, or you want to "win." She won't change her mind unless something tragic happens that brings all your words to reality for her, and she has a moment of clarity. She apparently will not be drug towards your direction. She knows what she knows, and there are some people like that. It is for you to decide where you want to go, as you can't control (or apparently influence) what she believes. You can only control what YOU do. For me, I would prefer to spend my emotional capital elswhere. YMMV. I hope you find what works for you.
Re: It still goes on with my sister and firearms Religion has nothing to do with it. A while back, I gave a GCO presentation to 27 members of a neighboring church. The pastor, in essence, gave all of them an order to join GCO. He, and his parishioners in attendance (plus one gal), were hot about being denied the right to carry in church. With your sister, you have to pick your battles. If she brings up guns, tell her you love her, but you're just not going to discuss them with her again. Simply tell her that a Baptist minister, along with GCO, has brought the suit to allow carry in churches, so it's clear this is more than a religious, or a conservative vs liberal issue. It's a matter of personal preference. She prefers not knowing about guns. You'd prefer not arguing with a sister you love.