My Negative Carrying Experiences

Discussion in 'LEO Encounters' started by ICP_Juggalo, Jun 29, 2006.

  1. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    As requested, I will share with you all some of the negative carrying experience I have been privy to.

    The most awful experience would have to be in a McDonalds back in 2002. This particular McDonalds is located in Carrollton right smack next to West GA University. Well within the 1000ft zero common sense school safety zone. Of course none of this mattered since I was not on actual school property, conducting lawful business within the zone and had a license to carry.

    I have open carried in this McDonalds numerous times before with no problems from anyone. This particular time I had been out all day shooting my new Ruger P89 9mm pistol. I had gotten hungry and decided to go get something to eat. I didn't feel like going home and changing clothes or putting away my new gun. Since I had a license to carry and a uncle mikes IWB holster I just bought for the gun, I decided to try it out and carry concealed to get something to eat. I wasn't looking trashy or anything, but I wasn't well dressed either. I was wearing blue jeans and a worn green t-shirt. While I was driving to McDonalds, my pistol was very uncomfortable IWB. So I unholstered it and placed in the passenger seat next to me.

    When I arrived at the McDonalds, I decided to re-holster the pistol as I didn't want to leave in the seat in my car while I was inside, nor did I have any place to lock it up in my car. The only way I could securely holster the pistol was to get out of my car and holster it standing up. I turned my backside towards the inside of my car so noone would hopefully not see and holstered my pistol. I went ahead and pulled my shirt over my pistol to conceal it as it was busy and didn't want to draw any attention and just to get in and get out. As I was walking towards the entrance, I noticed a couple of guys in a car in the drive through eyeballing me. I didn't think nothing of it, so I continued inside. When I got inside, I immediately noticed that there was a Carrollton PD officer inside just standing around watching people. This was the weekend, so I assumed that it was normal for the restuarant to hire security because of rowdy college kids.

    I got to the counter and purchased my order and I heard the door of the entrance open and saw the same guys that were eyeballing me in the drive though now walking through the door. I again didn't think too much of it, as the drive through was pretty backed up and they probably got tired of waiting and decided to come in and get their food. My food was ready and I took it and left. As I was leaving I could see out of the corner of my eye, the Carrollton PD officer had taken interest in me and was watching me. I horrdily thought that maybe I was printing or showing, but after checking myself by looking at the refelction of myself in the windows of the door as I walked out could not confirm this. I was still concealing.

    I got into my car and unholstered my pistol, as it is uncomfortable to sit down with it IWB, and placed it in the passenger seat. As I was getting my food secured, I was watching my rear view mirror at the entrance to the building just waiting for someone to come out after me. My worst fears came true when 4 Carrollton PD cruisers came tearing ass into the parking lot and surrounded my car. At this time the officer inside that was watching me came walking out of the building towards my car. I immediately knew what was coming. So I just sat there and watched in my rear view mirror as this officer approached me while I kept both my hands on the steering wheel. As the officer got to my car, two other officers on bike and another on foot approached my car from behind as well.

    The officer came up to my window and said, " How are you doing?" I said I was fine. "Sir, do you have a weapon on your person?" I replied yes. "Did you have it with you when you were in the restuarant"? Yes, I said. "Well how come I didn't see it?" "Because I was carrying it concealed IWB holster." I said. "May I see your I.D.?" "Ofcourse" I replied. I told him that I would have to reach for my back pocket to get my wallet and ID. He said that was fine and that he could see the gun in the seat next to me and as long as I didn't reach for the gun, we wouldn't have a problem. I handed him my ID and my firearms license. He tooked my ID and looked at my firearms license as if I had given him a piece of paper from an alien planet. He said just sit tight for a moment. He walked back to the bike officers that were behind my car and proceeded to talk with them. As I was watching them, I noticed in the windows of the restuarant, I could see the faces of the guys that I saw came walking in from the drive through that had been eyeballing me previously, watching the whole commotion.

    I could hear the officers talking behind me. One asked if I was a cop and if I wasn't, then what the hell was I doing carrying a gun. The other officer said that he has got a license so he can carry a gun almost like we can. The officer with my license and ID came walking back to my window. As he did, he waved off the other officers and said outloud that everything was ok, he got a permit! When the officer came back to my window, I asked him if he saw me carrying. He said no, that someone had call 911 and he got the call on the radio of a guy putting a gun in his pants and walking into the mcdonalds where I was. I said it wasn't them that called 911 was it? pointing over at the windows were the guys were still watching. He just kinda chuckled and said I don't know. I just a call on the radio that someone was carrying a gun into McDonalds and I saw you. The officer then said that he should take me in for carrying a concealed weapon :shock: since he didn't see it on me when I was in the restuarant. I said "That is why I have a firearms license, so I can carry a firearm, open or concealed." "You are wrong sir, the license onlygives you the right to carry openly, like you how you got it in the seat there, not concealed." he said. "You've got to be kidding me!, the probate court and the copy of the law says that I may conceal a firearm provided that it is in a holster and that I have a license." I said. The officer continued to say that I was wrong, that yes the gun has to be carried in a holster but not concealed. As he was telling me this, his eyes was reading the back of my license. He said, "Sir, not only do you need to go home and re-read the law, but you need to re-read the back of your license. It says here that you cannot carry into any public place where the public is gathered. As I see it, you broke 2 laws." I decided not to keep talking with this guy, as I could see that it wasn't going to be an intelligent conversation from this point on. I said, "Well then I need to go back to the probate court and tell them that they told me wrong". Even though I knew they didn't, this officer was the one who was wrong. The officer then said that since he didn't see the gun on me nor had any evidence that I actually had the pistol on me when I was inside the McDonalds that he was going to let me go with a warning :roll: He said that I need to go re-read the laws before I decide to carry in public again. I said I would do that and that I would visit the probate court again to request the correct information about my license. I also asked for his name incase they wanted to know which officer I spoke with. He said his name was Jeff Vaughn and that he is a bicycle cop for Carrollton P.D. here around the college campus. I said thank you and wished him a good day and left.

    The next day I went to the probate court and re-canted my story. The clerks I spoke with said that the officer was very mistaken about carrying concealed and carrying inside a public place. The clerks asked me if the officer gave me a ticket. I said no, but that this guy could be a problem for any other law abiding citizen who is carrying lawfully. They said that the understood and that my next stop should be the Carrollton P.D. to file a complaint about the officer. I said I didn't want to get him into serious trouble, but he is the one who needs to re-read the laws. I went to the Carrollton P.D. and filled out a statement and never heard anything else about it.

    Sorry for the long post, but that by far is the worst experience I have had while carrying... Concealed nonetheless!
     
  2. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    I have 2 other experiences involving a Circuit City and a Waffle House.

    I had just returned from vacation and still had some vacation money I wanted to spend. I had been wanting to upgrade my home theater with a dolby digital receiver. I had just recieved my license and was ok to carry. I decided to test the waters of open carry and carry inside. Once inside, I made it back to the store to the audio recievers. I wasn't there for 2 seconds before a sales associate comes up to me. He started telling me about the recievers and asked what I was looking for. I told him I wanted the new Dobly Digital receivers. He asked me to follow him in the sound room so he could show me the newer recievers they had gotten in. As I was playing with one of the receivers, the sales associate said "You know you're going to get kicked out of here." I looked at him with a blank stare and shrugged why. He said that Circuit City has a very strict no weapons policy and that no one is allowed to have a weapon on property or in their car in the parking lot, even off duty LEO's are not allowed to carry on the property.

    I asked if he was asking me to leave. He said no, but he said that some other customers saw me and atleast one other associate. He said that he like guns and but his job sometimes gets in the way of it because he has friends that work there with him that like guns too and they cant bring guns to work to trade or talk with each other about. As he was talking to me about some of the guns he has, he abruptly stopped and backed up from me and told a lady approaching him that he "had already spoken to me."

    The lady came into the sound room and identified herself as a manager. She said that Circuity City policy forbids customer from carrying guns into the store and that I would have to leave immediately. I said that I was sorry and didn't mean to alarm anyone and that I was carrying all this money because I wanted to buy a new sound system and I was afraid for my safety with all this money. She said that she understood and that if I wanted to buy, then I needed to removed the gun from the premise and then come back to purchase. I took $600 out of my pocket and said that if I walk out the door with this money and no sound system, me and this money isn't coming back. I will go spend it elsewhere. She said that I didn't need to do that, that if I would just go to my car and put up my gun, then they would be more than happy to assist me with my purchase. I said that I cannot do that because my gun goes where I go and if I am not welcomed with my gun then I will go spend my money where my gun and I are welcomed.

    On that noted I left without spending a dime. When I got to my car, I noticed the manager had come out of the store looking around for me to see if I had left or not.


    The Waffle House was less eventful. I was openly carrying and went in to sit at the counter. The server there saw my gun and asked if I was a cop. I said no. He then said that I needed to leave I wasn't allowed to carry a gun. I said fine I wil go eat elsewhere and left.

    I went into yet a different Waffle House and was kicked out by an off duty LEO. He said that Waffle House was a public gathering because if atleast 15 or more people were present inside a building then it constituted a gathering of the public.

    The only postitive experience I believe I have ever had was when I was working for the movie theater, I always carried to work. Where I worked was in a shopping mall. Very dangerous place especially late at night when I got off. One day coming into work, mall security spots me carrying. They inform my manager. My manager calls the police. The Sheriff's department shows up. I get called into the manager's office. They ask if I have a gun. I say yes and I am licensed by the state to carry. The manager says I cannot carry to work. Aganist company policy. The Sheriff Deputy says that he cannot do anything because he is licensed to carry and he can carry pretty much anywhere outside a public gathering. Boss asks is the theater is a public gathering. Deputy says no because it doesn't fall under the specific definitions, doesn't have an event that will cause people to gather, and even still since people with tickets can only enter the premises, then public cannot gather. So he says...
     

  3. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    ICPJ,

    The common theme in your stories (thanks for sharing, by the way), is that the store proprietors seemed to understand their rights correctly (that they could ask you to leave), but the LEOs did not seem to understand the public gathering law. Even the LEO at the movie theater, who may have come to the correct conclusion (that a theater is not a public gathering), came to that conclusion erroneously (based on ticket sales).

    One of the problems we are faced with is the complexity and vagueness of the public gathering law. Based on anecdotal evidence such as these stories (and others like them), misunderstanding of the public gathering law seems very pervasive.
     
  4. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    Wow, did he come up with that all by himself?
     
  5. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Hey, mzmtg, that avatar is nowhere near as cool as the old one!
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree!
     
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I also asked for his name incase they wanted to know which officer I spoke with. He said his name was Jeff Vaughn and that he is a bicycle cop for Carrollton P.D. here around the college campus . . .

    Almost four years later, do you think it is too late to send him a copy of State v. Burns, the McDonald's case?
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Negative?

    Awful?

    Come on, admit it - it was kind of fun! What was that, like, 8 cops? The original one inside the restaurant, 4 cruisers, assuming one in each, two on bicycles, and one on foot.

    And not one of these dummies in the year 2002 knew the law in Georgia? I find that shocking.
     
  9. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    <----------

    How about this one?
     
  10. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    Looking back on it now, I find it quite funny, sending a whole precint out to deal with my apparant criminal shenanigans.

    It reminds me of when my landlord told me that when he was a kid living in Carrollton, still living here btw, him and bunch of buddies wanted to drag race on a particular side of town. So they would draw straws, the one who drew the shortest straw was the "scapegoat". The scapegoat's job was to go over to the opposite side of town and cause a commotion that would draw the police's attention to that side of town so the other guys could be left alone to drag race.
     
  11. viper32cm

    viper32cm New Member

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    Ok that it's this idiotic public gathering law needs to go. Actually they all need to go, but that one can go first.
     
  12. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday New Member

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    Those bike cops that patrol West Ga. are not the greatest cops I have encountered. Have had some run ins with them when I was at the University. I can't believe they don't know the law.
     
  13. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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    This was probably the butterfly beating its wings that resulted in the hurricane of bankruptcy and dissolution.
     
  14. ookoshi

    ookoshi Moderator

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    Wait, going to a movie is not a public gathering? I always assumed it was (in that it was similar to a sporting or athletic event in the whole buying a ticket for an event to occur at a specific time kind of way). I need to stop leaving my firearm at home when going to the movies.
     
  15. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    I have come to believe that a movie theater very well may be a public gathering, for the same reasons you mention.
     
  16. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    I believe we have to go back in time to when the Public Gathering law was introduced. What were people doing at the time, which caused such consternation among the legislators?

    Were they upset that people were gathering among themselves to watch the latest Shakespearian play being performed?
    ----- OR -----
    Were they worried that a group of formerly involuntarily indentured people had found a voice and were gathering to hear their leaders speak, perhaps armed for their own protection against a certain group that had a preference for bedsheets and hoods as a fashion statement?

    It's been stated that the majority of Georgia's firearms laws are racist in origin. If we concede that this is true, for what purpose was the Public Gathering prohibition introduced?




    ps... I am fully aware that 'involuntarily indentured' is not the appropriate term, forgive me for a bit of editorial license.