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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter #1
If there is already a thread on this please move-

Trial begins for Jessie Murray in Clayton County June 26th.

The Defendant tried to claim Stand Your Ground, but the Judge denied that request in 2016.

The incident took place in Feb 2014. It's hard to know exactly what happened, but the black community is really upset that he was denied stand your ground immunity.

One website's rendition of the facts-
https://endstandyourground.wordpress.com/tag/jessie-murray/
It reportedly all begins at a sports bar in Clayton County, Georgia, where 33-year-old Murray met with his estranged wife, Traci, for a meal, to discuss their relationship and children. The couple had once been regular customers of the business and were known by employees there.

After their meal, the Murrays tried their hand at a game of pool while having a few drinks, as a party was taking place nearby. Nathan Adams, a White male who was allegedly drunk, along with a woman, stumbled into Traci, and Murray, who is Black, tried to stop them from falling.

Adams â€" who just happened to be an ex-cop â€" offered no apologies, but allegedly warned Murray not to touch him again, as Murray stood between Traci and Adams and told him to get away from his wife.

A drunken Adams reportedly told Murray, “You need to f*cking leave†as four other White men, apparently Adams’ friends, appeared to surround Murray, and Adams pushed him in the chest.

Murray said he walked away from the men, went outside to his car, grabbed his licensed handgun and headed back toward the entrance to go back inside to bring his wife Traci out. He put the gun in his pocket.

As he tried to go back into the bar, Adams’ group blocked the door. Murray told the men to let his wife come out of the bar, but they refused, and instead moved toward him into the parking lot.

Several men accused of attacking Murray reportedly claimed they were concerned Murray was going to get a gun, had made threatening statements, and had called the woman who was with Adams an offensive name.

WSB-TV reports that Murray testified, “I was scared. I was definitely, at that moment, I was in fear. I was scared,†He also said, “They just made trouble happen for no reason.â€

Adams threw a punch at Murray and all four men jumped in, kicking punching, and tackling Murray to the ground, then choking him as Adams held him by the arm.

In chilling court testimony, Murray testified that, “As he [Adams] was pulling on me I just remember him grunting.†Murray said soon after that Adams appeared to reach for (or his hands got close to) the gun in Murray’s pocket.

“At that point, when I pulled back, that’s when my gun discharges.†Murray was then able to escape â€" as one of the men shot at him â€" and run to a nearby business, from where he called police.
When he left to retrieve his gun from his car, he should have taken his ex-wife with him and left.

We will have to see what the Jury thinks about it.

FB page for the defendant https://www.facebook.com/thecaseofjessiemurray/

 

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American
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By leaving and attempting to return, with a weapon, he lost his right to defend your ground because he had already successfully disengaged and then tried to reengage. If he had gone to his car and they followed and confronted him there without him trying to return it might be another story.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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I'm shaking my head that the sheer moronic stupidity of Clayton County Superior Court Judge Albert Collier. How can you NOT be in fear of your life when attacked by four men?!

I'll say it again, Judge Albert Collier is an IDIOT!
 

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Moderator
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"At that point, when I pulled back, that’s when my gun discharges.”


:-k



#-o That's not a stand your ground immunity case. [-(

Criminal defendants do this to themselves all the time. I did not intend to shoot him. The gun discharges.

A claim of accident negates self defense and may very well mean that the judge will not even instruct the jury on self defense.

You cannot claim "accident" and "self defense." The two are entirely inconsistent.

You either meant to shoot him, and you were justified, or you did not mean to shoot him.

If you want to claim self defense, you must admit you intentionally used force against the other person. Once you make that admission, you can argue justification.

No wonder his stand your ground claim was denied at the hearing.
 

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Moderator
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I'm shaking my head that the sheer moronic stupidity of Clayton County Superior Court Judge Albert Collier. How can you NOT be in fear of your life when attacked by four men?!

I'll say it again, Judge Albert Collier is an IDIOT!
Sigh. Because Murray claimed it was an accident. Fear does not enter into accidents, Phil.
 

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https://blog.uslawshield.com/saying-the-wrong-thing-cost-georgia-man-his-stand-your-ground-defense/

The judge stated that the reason Murray could not use the defense was because he said his gun fired by accident during the struggle with the victim and his three friends.

Judge Collier went on to say, "The Court cannot reconcile the defendants asking for immunity under a self-defense statute, by stating that the use of deadly force was justified, and then also stating that the use of deadly force was unintentional." There is no 'accidental self-defense.'
U.S. Law Shield of Georgia Independent Program Attorney Matt Kilgo offered a review of the case. Kilgo stated that "Georgia law is clear on the issue of immunity. In order to rely upon the defense of justification, you must admit the allegation. Proclaiming the shooting an unintentional act is directly at odds with the concept of the justified use of deadly force."

"The danger in Mr. Murray's testimony as recounted here." Kilgo went on to say, "is that the defense of justification relates to intentional acts. Georgia law is clear that you must admit the allegations in order to rely on the defense of justification. In other words, Mr. Murray cannot claim the shooting was an accident and rely on the defense of the justified use of deadly force. One cannot intend an accident."
 

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The judge is correct. This is how Georgia law works.

If you want to claim self defense, then you must admit you intended to use force that, but for the self defense claim, would be unlawful.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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The defendant's words appear to describe fear during the struggle. A subsequent accident does not negate the fact of that fear.

At that point the attackers needed shooting, whether by accident or on purpose, for it was clear they meant to do him great harm.

Sigh. Because Murray claimed it was an accident. Fear does not enter into accidents, Phil.
 

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Watch the video in the first link. The reporters say in the first ten seconds he claimed it was an accidental discharge.


The claim in the video from the NAACP lawyer, that "The Stand Your Ground Law is for African Americans, too," is true. It just does not apply to this case. There is plenty of case law with white defendants appealing convictions because judges refused to instruct the jury on self defense. If the reason is because the white defendant claimed the gun "went off" accidentally, then the instruction is refused. The courts of appeal uphold such convictions.

This is not a color issue.

It is a matter of law.

Self defense is intentional. There is no such thing as accidental self defense.
 

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The defendant's words appear to describe fear during the struggle. A subsequent accident does not negate the fact of that fear.
Yes, it does. Please pay attention to what I am writing. Fear is completely irrelevant to the defense of accident.

At that point the attackers needed shooting, whether by accident or on purpose, for it was clear they meant to do him great harm.
Re-read until it sinks in. There is no such thing as accidental self defense. It does not exist.

Guess what? It does not exist for white persons in Georgia, either.
 

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Sorry to sound so harsh, but this is clear law in Georgia. His attorney should have advised him better on how to testify. I shot him. I meant to shoot him. I had to do it to save my life.

Didn't you tell the officer "the gun discharged?"

Yes, I did. It discharged when I pulled the trigger to stop the attack.

Any competent attorney who has spent even an hour reading self defense cases in Georgia would have known that an accident claim would pretty much mean NO stand your ground immunity. If Murray sticks to this accident story at trial, it might mean the jury never gets instructed by the judge on the law of self defense.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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Were it not for the multiple perps grabbing onto him and assaulting him the gun wouldn't have accidentally discharged. It's not a crime to be armed, and it's not a crime for your gun to suddenly go off while being violently attacked.

He may not be able to claim SYG for the actual discharge, but he committed NO crime!

Has the world gone completely mad?
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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If I'm on the jury I'm voting not guilty. I hope his actual jurors have that much common sense as well.
 

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If I'm on the jury I'm voting not guilty. I hope his actual jurors have that much common sense as well.
Based on what? Accident?

They may not even hear from the judge on self defense instructions. Pay attention.
 

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Were it not for the multiple perps grabbing onto him and assaulting him the gun wouldn't have accidentally discharged.
Well, that is the defense of accident. Maybe it will work.

But please stop confusing this with self defense. The two are not the same.
 

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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry to sound so harsh, but this is clear law in Georgia. His attorney should have advised him better on how to testify. I shot him. I meant to shoot him. I had to do it to save my life.

Didn't you tell the officer "the gun discharged?"

Yes, I did. It discharged when I pulled the trigger to stop the attack.

Any competent attorney who has spent even an hour reading self defense cases in Georgia would have known that an accident claim would pretty much mean NO stand your ground immunity. If Murray sticks to this accident story at trial, it might mean the jury never gets instructed by the judge on the law of self defense.
Seems to be a clear case of having a cruddy attorney.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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See post #12 and what I said about SYG. I am not confusing the two.

I'm saying I would acquit based on no crime being committed by him.

Well, that is the defense of accident. Maybe it will work.

But please stop confusing this with self defense. The two are not the same.
 

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codegeek reincarnate
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By leaving and attempting to return, with a weapon, he lost his right to defend your ground because he had already successfully disengaged and then tried to reengage. If he had gone to his car and they followed and confronted him there without him trying to return it might be another story.
So, you're saying that a law abiding citizen, that had broken no law, was not free to decide for himself where he wanted be in this public business establishment? and once he had made a decision to travel freely and was denied that right through violence, that he could not stand his ground and defend himself? interesting....

On the surface I would have no problem aquitting this gentleman, regardless of whether or not he knows the fancy code words prized by the judicial system.
 

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American
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So, you're saying that a law abiding citizen, that had broken no law, was not free to decide for himself where he wanted be in this public business establishment? and once he had made a decision to travel freely and was denied that right through violence, that he could not stand his ground and defend himself? interesting....

On the surface I would have no problem aquitting this gentleman, regardless of whether or not he knows the fancy code words prized by the judicial system.
The basis for my position is that he had disengaged successfully from a confrontation and then advanced on them. That is not SYG in any manner whatsoever. That can be legitimately viewed as aggressive and not defensive on his part.
 

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codegeek reincarnate
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The basis for my position is that he had disengaged successfully from a confrontation and then advanced on them. That is not SYG in any manner whatsoever. That can be legitimately viewed as aggressive and not defensive on his part.
going back inside to escort his wife safely out of the establishment is aggressive?
 
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