Might get an extra box of bullets and case of beans

1259 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by moe mensale, Aug 11, 2017

Nemo

Discussion Starter · May 28, 2017

3 carrier battle groups sailing around N. Korea. Near never have 3 in one area. This is getting a bit concerning to me and I am way out of NK nuke range as is Ga. But keep in mind EMP.

Nemo

https://www.voanews.com/a/third-naval-strike-force-deployed-north-korea/3873637.html

3rd US Naval Strike Force Deployed to Deter North Korea
Last Updated: May 27, 2017 11:40 AM

The United States is sending a third aircraft carrier strike force to the western Pacific region in an apparent warning to North Korea to deter its ballistic missile and nuclear programs, two sources have told VOA.

The USS Nimitz, one of the worldâ€™s largest warships, will join two other supercarriers, the USS Carl Vinson and the USS Ronald Reagan, in the western Pacific, the sources told VOA's Steve Herman.

go read the rest at link above

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gunsmoker

· #2 · May 28, 2017

I think we're just burning up a few million gallons of diesel fuel and shortening the half-life of the uranium fuel rods in an effort to "send a message" to the Norks. We aren't going to attack them.
If they attack us, we'll pound them in a decisive but limited retaliatory strike, and the world will be OK with that. Nobody is going to step in to take the Nork's side.

The inbred crazy kid running the country won't order escalation of the hostilities, because he'd (correctly) assume that it means a cruise missile up his butt and the same "death from above" to all his family, top aides, and generals. Or maybe he'd be captured alive, put on trial, and publicly hanged, with his death pics going viral all over the world). (Like Saddam, like Gadaffi, like Ceaucescu). His legacy would be either the fall of North Korea and its takeover by the U.N. and the South, OR it would be simply be the end of his family's dynasty, an ending in failure as the nation is bankrupt, broken, starving, and now would not even have a viable military to threaten the West with.

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Phil1979

· #3 · May 28, 2017

Trump should just drop a bomb on Kim Jong-un and get it over with.

NTA

· #4 · May 29, 2017

The 30,000 troops we have on the dmz are sacrificial. Their loss will allow a nuke retaliation. This is no secret.
Been this way for 30 years or so.

The NK's are still miffed at the US for killing 30% of the N. Korea population in that police action in the 50's.

68908

· #5 · May 30, 2017

gunsmoker said:
I think we're just burning up a few million gallons of diesel fuel and shortening the half-life of the uranium fuel rods in an effort to "send a message" to the Norks. We aren't going to attack them.
If they attack us, we'll pound them in a decisive but limited retaliatory strike, and the world will be OK with that. Nobody is going to step in to take the Nork's side.

The inbred crazy kid running the country won't order escalation of the hostilities, because he'd (correctly) assume that it means a cruise missile up his butt and the same "death from above" to all his family, top aides, and generals. Or maybe he'd be captured alive, put on trial, and publicly hanged, with his death pics going viral all over the world). (Like Saddam, like Gadaffi, like Ceaucescu). His legacy would be either the fall of North Korea and its takeover by the U.N. and the South, OR it would be simply be the end of his family's dynasty, an ending in failure as the nation is bankrupt, broken, starving, and now would not even have a viable military to threaten the West with.

Basically, good post, they aren't going to mess with us.

wee

· #6 · May 31, 2017

Lets not forget that he may actually be CRAZY in which case all bets are off.

Brian

gunsmoker

· #7 · Aug 7, 2017

The UN Security Council imposed tight new economic sanctions against N. Korea over their missile and nuke programs.
There are 15 countries represented on the Security Council, including China and Russia.
It's good to see China and Russia going against the Norks this way.

Phil1979

· #8 · Aug 7, 2017

A few more million starving slaves in North Korea will have zero effect on what that little tyrant over there is doing and will do.

Nemo

Discussion Starter · #9 · Aug 8, 2017

But when that couple million more try to get into China for a bowl of rice or anything edible and China has to let them in or kill them to keep them out, I suspect they will make Un be good boy and lose himself in a boating accident.

Nemo

NTA

· #10 · Aug 8, 2017

The new sanctions affect "new" contracts. The existing 10 year ones are still good.

gunsmoker

· #11 · Aug 8, 2017

If China were smart, they would take him out and then assume a new position of military dominance over that entire region. The world wouldn't mind so much, if China claims it was necessary to take out that threat to security in the entire pacific rim.

Ideally the entire UN Security Council would vote to take out the Nork dictator, kill him or put him on trial in The Hague for crimes against humanity, imprison his top generals, and start building a new government through free elections.
Even if the people of North Korea choose through their votes to stay as a hardline communist nation, that would be OK.
After seeing what happened to the last warmongering dictator, the new leader probably will not be so eager to make weapons of mass distruction, attack allies, or make threats of war on a weekly basis against other world superpowers.

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onenil

· #12 · Aug 9, 2017

gunsmoker said:
If China were smart, they would take him out

The problem is that Fat Boy Jr. is so paranoid that he's purge absolutely anyone and everyone around him who he even thinks might be pro-China. So the odds of China getting anyone even remotely near him are about zero.

gunsmoker

· #13 · Aug 9, 2017

I don't mean assassinate him in a sneaky way. I mean invade his country, capture Pyongyang, destroy his military ( in that area), do house by house searches, and drag him kicking & screaming into a Chinese armored vehicle.

The USA could supply air support for that operation.

South Korea and Japan could watch the Nork navy and sink anything of theirs that acts like it wants to join the fight.

The South Korean army would stay put and just guard the border /DMZ.

GoDores

· #14 · Aug 10, 2017

gunsmoker said:
I don't mean assassinate him in a sneaky way. I mean invade his country, capture Pyongyang, destroy his military ( in that area), do house by house searches, and drag him kicking & screaming into a Chinese armored vehicle.

The USA could supply air support for that operation.

South Korea and Japan could watch the Nork navy and sink anything of theirs that acts like it wants to join the fight.

The South Korean army would stay put and just guard the border /DMZ.

Good plan, except for the several million South Koreans who'd be killed in the first couple days. Not to mention the 30k US troops on the border.

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Nemo

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 10, 2017

gunsmoker said:
I don't mean assassinate him in a sneaky way. I mean invade his country, capture Pyongyang, destroy his military ( in that area), do house by house searches, and drag him kicking & screaming into a Chinese armored vehicle.

The USA could supply air support for that operation.

South Korea and Japan could watch the Nork navy and sink anything of theirs that acts like it wants to join the fight.

The South Korean army would stay put and just guard the border /DMZ.

The instant the NK military saw a parachute coming down, their artillery would start firing at SK with orders to keep shooting until you run out of ammo or get destroyed. I believe large part will obey those orders.

I think probably 20% of the population of SK in the Seoul area and north will be dead in 12 hours. That population is about 25 million. Along with 2 or 3 times that percent of US military. You do the math.

The NK army will near immediately start a march south with probably 750K men on the way. Another 40-60% of SK is dead.

Even if Chinese go in first, that type attack will not be good. The only way to get this resolved is for him to blink or an internal removal.

About any other way is many many casualties and likely a nuke or 2 popping. No matter how, it ain't gonna be pretty.

If internal it will likely stay all internal but that will be bloody and could easily go outside.

If not internal, well I hope I am way way wrong.

Nemo

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Rugerer

· #16 · Aug 10, 2017

Interesting article on NK.

http://www.businessinsider.com/3-ma.../#the-korean-peninsula-and-surrounding-area-1

To understand North Korean strategy today, we must first understand the implications of its geography.
...
There is a permanence to the North Korean situation that many underestimate.

The author makes the point that NK is behaving rationally for the situation that it's in.

onenil

· #17 · Aug 11, 2017

Nemo said:
The instant the NK military saw a parachute coming down, their artillery would start firing at SK with orders to keep shooting until you run out of ammo or get destroyed. I believe large part will obey those orders.

I think probably 20% of the population of SK in the Seoul area and north will be dead in 12 hours. That population is about 25 million. Along with 2 or 3 times that percent of US military. You do the math.

The NK army will near immediately start a march south with probably 750K men on the way. Another 40-60% of SK is dead.

Nemo

I've followed NK for quite a while and this is all incredibly unlikely. They do have a lot of artillery but it is almost all 50s-60s vintage and in many cases is unlikely to work anymore. The shells for these guns are about as old and are more likely to kill the soldiers trying to fire them than anybody in the South. The North does have a lot of troops on the border but they are very poorly trained, very malnourished, and on the average much physically weaker then their southern counterparts. They rarely, if ever, train with live ammunition because 1) the North can't afford to use up what they have and 2) the higher ups are paranoid that if they give the rank and file too many bullets those soldiers may turn around and use them on their leaders. It would be suicide to try to cross the DMZ, which is the most dense minefield on Earth, and there are only two road crossings between the north and the south. They would also have zero air/tank support because the north has no fuel to run these things for more than a couple of days (if that long).

The North only presents a threat in two aspects: they have a significant medium and long range rocket force, and they have a substantial submarine force that, while not much of a threat to a modern navy, could wreak havoc and civilian shipping and fishing.

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moe mensale

· #18 · Aug 11, 2017

onenil said:
It would be suicide to try to cross the DMZ, which is the most dense minefield on Earth...

Why use manpower in a futile attempt at beating the south?

They have a substantial enough missile force to just lob a rather large bunch of chemical and/or biological warheads (which they may or may not have) into the south and create utter devastation. Kim's half brother was assassinated earlier this year with some form of nerve agent.

Theoretically they could the same with a small nuclear bomb or a dirty bomb.

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