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bdee said:
I am not going to bother arguing "facts" with people that would quote jihad watch as their source of information. Their website is an Israeli funded spin machine dedicated to stirring up fear with the express purpose of ensuring our continued military aid. Check out who your sources are before you quote them.

Nor am i going to argue passages taken out of their historical context, just to fuel your bigotry. I could give you a variety of primary documents about medieval Islam, my specialty, but you'd likely look within them to find justification for your hatred rather than what they are. So again what's the point?

So keep reading websites, designed to keep you fearful, it's how you want to feel anyhow, and it makes you feel better that your not alone in your hatred. Good luck.
What is jihad watch? I really don't know what that is. Also, it certainly does sound like a website with an agenda. I don't go there and I don't really know what you're talking about. Its great that you would assume something so meaningless, but you know you really should assume anything like that without proof. You're a liar, as I have never quoted anything from jihad watch that I know of.

Yay! There you go calling me a bigot again, after I already proved to you last time that I was not a bigot, and you never manned up and actually admitted it.

Bdee, that's right, call me names when you cannot argue facts. You're such an amazing debater. You're also a liar and troll.

What's the point? I believe you are a troll, bdee. With that sad, I won't feed the troll anymore!

 

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EJR914 said:
bdee said:
I am not going to bother arguing "facts" with people that would quote jihad watch as their source of information. Their website is an Israeli funded spin machine dedicated to stirring up fear with the express purpose of ensuring our continued military aid. Check out who your sources are before you quote them.

Nor am i going to argue passages taken out of their historical context, just to fuel your bigotry. I could give you a variety of primary documents about medieval Islam, my specialty, but you'd likely look within them to find justification for your hatred rather than what they are. So again what's the point?

So keep reading websites, designed to keep you fearful, it's how you want to feel anyhow, and it makes you feel better that your not alone in your hatred. Good luck.
What is jihad watch? I really don't know what that is. Also, it certainly does sound like a website with an agenda. I don't go there and I don't really know what you're talking about. Its great that you would assume something so meaningless, but you know you really should assume anything like that without proof. You're a liar, as I have never quoted anything from jihad watch that I know of.

Yay! There you go calling me a bigot again, after I already proved to you last time that I was not a bigot, and you never manned up and actually admitted it.

Bdee, that's right, call me names when you cannot argue facts. You're such an amazing debater. You're also a liar and troll.

What's the point? I believe you are a troll, bdee. With that sad, I won't feed the troll anymore!

COPY RIGHT VIOLATION!!! It's a spin off from the smurfs ;) EJR I agree with you, as I've followed both of your posts back and forth and why he continues to call you a bigot is beyond me. In my opinion <---- notice I said my opinion you've provided facts based on a written book, it really cant be that misconstrued. I did some searches on what you presented and was able to get several hundred if not thousand hits from them. So why he is targeting a agenda/propaganda website i'm not sure. But he does need to realize that he is having a debate with us and theres no reason to get defensive.

If you wish to teach us the clean loving caring Islam then PLEASE SHOW US THE PROOF. I've never read the book, nor do I care to. And Bdee, I don't buy it for one second when someone says that islam in america is different from Islam in other countries. If I'm correct don't you all use the same book, read the same passages and worship the same god? Simple question because unlike EJR I haven't wasted my time learning about Islam (not that you wasted your time EJR). But I think if anyone could make us understand your argument, that person is you. But right now its your word or these guys:

 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
The point of this thread was to point out the fallacy of trying to equate the alleged actions of one or a small group of men has any bearing on the religion itself (the example I used was Mr. Long, or any accused Catholic priest). I compared it to the actions of a few radicals, widely condemned by the vast majority of Muslims.

EJR decided that this was a good time to start rant again about specific passages, he took out of context to prove his point. Do a simple search on this site and see how many times he's brought up "Shar'ia" as if there was one universal interpretation of what the Qur'an says or means. He wants me to get into a debate on "facts" he read on the internet.

If you want to know more about current trends in the modern Middle East, and Islamism in particular, I suggest a website that I have done a brief bit of editing for, and hope to possibly work for once I complete my PhD next year. The website is:

http://www.currenttrends.org/

This website is funded through the Hudson Institute, who has several connections to the Hoover Institute, a conservative think tank.

Islamism is a problem in the Middle East, but the problem is not as simplistic as the aforementioned member's adolescent rants. I found it ironic that he called me a collectivist, when he was trying to lump all Muslim together. That all Muslims are some sort of universal whole that contain no individuals, and have no agency in their own lives. That there is no possibility in the motivations of the radicals other than the simplistic binary he has set up.

al-Qaeda's goals are not so simple as America is the Devil and we hate freedom and Death to America, though they do say that. These men are very intelligent, and quite well connected. So perhaps it is easy to motivate your own audience by dehumanizing these people, but it will take people from focusing on 'effective' ways of shutting them down. But one thing to keep in mind is that these radicals' ultimate goal is not the destruction of the West, but the eventual overthrow of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia. It is about money and power, but religion has a way of motivating the disaffected.

Hope this helps.

Read some of these well written and insightful articles. Unfortunately, you can't copy and paste the bullet points, but they will give you an insight into the real problems in the Middle East.
 

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bdee said:
The point of this thread was to point out the fallacy of trying to equate the alleged actions of one or a small group of men has any bearing on the religion itself (the example I used was Mr. Long, or any accused Catholic priest). I compared it to the actions of a few radicals, widely condemned by the vast majority of Muslims.

EJR decided that this was a good time to start rant again about specific passages, he took out of context to prove his point. Do a simple search on this site and see how many times he's brought up "Shar'ia" as if there was one universal interpretation of what the Qur'an says or means. He wants me to get into a debate on "facts" he read on the internet.

If you want to know more about current trends in the modern Middle East, and Islamism in particular, I suggest a website that I have done a brief bit of editing for, and hope to possibly work for once I complete my PhD next year. The website is:

http://www.currenttrends.org/

This website is funded through the Hudson Institute, who has several connections to the Hoover Institute, a conservative think tank.

Islamism is a problem in the Middle East, but the problem is not as simplistic as the aforementioned member's adolescent rants. I found it ironic that he called me a collectivist, when he was trying to lump all Muslim together. That all Muslims are some sort of universal whole that contain no individuals, and have no agency in their own lives. That there is no possibility in the motivations of the radicals other than the simplistic binary he has set up.

al-Qaeda's goals are not so simple as America is the Devil and we hate freedom and Death to America, though they do say that. These men are very intelligent, and quite well connected. So perhaps it is easy to motivate your own audience by dehumanizing these people, but it will take people from focusing on 'effective' ways of shutting them down. But one thing to keep in mind is that these radicals' ultimate goal is not the destruction of the West, but the eventual overthrow of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia. It is about money and power, but religion has a way of motivating the disaffected.

Hope this helps.

Read some of these well written and insightful articles. Unfortunately, you can't copy and paste the bullet points, but they will give you an insight into the real problems in the Middle East.
ty Bdee I will look at it when I get home this evening. I;m very open to the views from the other side of the wall as should everyone else here. And I understand and from prior research and reading, you're not the first to call these people some very intelligent people, I've read that in several articles that are written outside of any media base. I hope its a good read and that the FBI/CIa doesnt bang on my door for reading it. sadly I doubt they're as open minded than I :p
 

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EJR914 said:
Its not a rant, its facts. I never said that this was all Muslims, I did say that there are people that believe these things in the Muslim religion.

Again, you're lying, in order to try to discredit me.
lol EJR one day we need to attend the same gathering or lets go to the range for a few hours. You my friend are truly dedicated lol.
 

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EJR914 said:
I prefer the word tenacious. I don't give up.
(Black Knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail)
 

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bdee said:
But one thing to keep in mind is that these radicals' ultimate goal is not the destruction of the West, but the eventual overthrow of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia. It is about money and power, but religion has a way of motivating the disaffected.

Hope this helps.
Maybe someone should point out to them that Saudi Arabia is not in the USA, or Brittan, or France, or................
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
seereus said:
bdee said:
But one thing to keep in mind is that these radicals' ultimate goal is not the destruction of the West, but the eventual overthrow of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia. It is about money and power, but religion has a way of motivating the disaffected.

Hope this helps.
Maybe someone should point out to them that Saudi Arabia is not in the USA, or Brittan, or France, or................
Al-Qaeda seems to feel that the Saudi leadership is illegitimate, and if not for American support, the people of Saudi Arabia would rise up and overthrow them (presumably they feel that they could fill that power vacuum) So they are trying to make our presence in Saudi not worth it on a cost benefit analysis. They calculated that their attack would draw us to the region. (They were correct in that projection.) They are trying to capitalize on popular distrust of the west given their history with colonialism in the region up to the 1950s. What they are attempting to do is show the people of the region that their current governments are puppets of the west, and their populations will turn against them on the basis of that belief. So in provoking us to intervene in the region, they feel they are one step closer to their goals. They also seem to believe that once they have control of a large chunk of the world's oil supply, we will be forced to recognize them as the legitimate government. This is their fundamental mistake.
 
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