[Bkite]

How about this, so that we are fair to both Christians and Muslims in America:

1. No mosques should be built within three blocks of a terrorist attack. It is still too soon, it would be insensitive to the victims, and it might attract those that would commit acts of terror to the site.

2. No churches should be built within three blocks of a school, playground, or park. It is still too soon, it would be insensitive to the victims, and it might attract those that would molest children to the site.

3. It is acceptable for Christians to burn their own copies of the Qur'an and vice versa, but only if membership is flagging and you need the publicity.

Sound fair?

interesting thread....just apply 2 to the mosque site building locations also lest we forget the whole mohammed/pedohilia thing also....

 

[rah45]

rah45, I am not trying to be harsh, but your edit is no better. None of the documents were "created" during the time period you claim. None of them were created in that century, even, or the century before that, or the century before that.

There were some decisions made to accept or reject documents (letters and books) based on careful study, with very little dissent (but there was dissent, and heads did not roll).

All of the rejected books are available for your study and easy to obtain. Take a gander. Seriously.

I see where you misunderstood me. I did not elaborate where I should have. By "created", I meant that the Council and Constantine debated on all the prominent writings at the time, chose the ones they thought were legitimate, and used those to "create" the official, Christian religion that Constantine wanted. I know that the documents were present hundreds of years before. I only meant that the selected ones were used to make one main Christian religion where there had previously been different sects with varying beliefs.

I do intend on finding and reading those works, when I get time to really sit down and study them. Upper-level college courses keep me a bit busy with reading material.

 

[bdee]

EJR,
You are so filled with hate, it is frightening. Get counseling. Seriously. You can wrap that hate in decontextualized excerpts from the Qur'an, just as any decently educated person can do to the Bible, and it still doesn't remove the hatred in your writing.

The Bible, specifically Jesus said, Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. And when one man stepped up, his sins were revealed.

And yet some Christians continue to believe in the death penalty, despite this clear prohibition. It seems to me that anyone who claims to be a Christian would be faith bound to oppose capital punishment...... Unless of course you read other portions of the Bible that seemingly support it. It is up to every Christian to create a belief system that they feel coincides with their interpretation of the Bible. The same holds true for Muslims and the Qur'an. The vast majority of believe it to be a religion of peace and tolerance. Some use the religion for their own purposes.

BTW, I heard a justice from the Alabama Supreme court say that the entire basis of the American judicial system was on the Ten Commandments. That's Shar'ia. Shar'ia law is the interpretation of the Qur'an by 'experts' to put into law what God has commanded. It is all based on human interpretation.

:lol: Nice try to paint me as some hate-filled nut job that needs counseling, did you learn that one from MSNBC or the Huffington Post? Your reply is so typical it is laughable.

I don't hate any Muslims. I'm dealing with facts here. You are using ad hominem attacks on me because you know you cannot argue with facts.

There is no hate in my writing. I don't hate a single Muslim person. That is a complete lie and falsehood.

What does my post have anything to do with Christianity? Strawman. That Alabama Supreme court justice is a fool for saying such a thing, and furthermore, what did that have to do with my post? Nothing. Strawman.

The Alabama Supreme Court Justice's opinion is easily unproven. Nowhere in the 10 Commandments does it say that you have to have freedom of religion, the press, or assembly, nowhere does it say that you have to have the freedom to bare arms, nowhere does it say you can't have soldiers stationed in your home without your consent... nowhere does it say that you have the right to be secure in your effects, nowhere does it say that you have the freedom to remain silent.

Do not murder, do not steal are common law, that almost every country and ever state agrees on... just because they happen to be in The Bible doesn't mean we are a theocracy in America. Its laughable.

This isn't the first time you've attacked me on this forum. I believe last time you called me a hate-filled bigot. I remember proving to you that it was false, and you still never manned up and admitted that you were wrong.

Now you're trying to use the same techniques that all the liberals use which is to call me crazy, suggest I need couseling, and that I'm so full of hate. All this instead of actually arguing the facts without using personal attacks, ad hominem, to try and discredit me and strawmen.

What exactly did any of your post above have to do with my post?

Nice try, but I'm onto you.

So there are other people besides me that recognize the pathology in your thinking?

If you decontextualize certain passages you can come up with any sort of narrative you want. It seems you want to demonize Islam and found passages to do just that. I could do the same to the Bible, but that would offend the Christians on this forum, and that is not my intention.

The point of this thread is that if we need to apply the same standards used towards Muslims and Christians, and the fallacy of using a broad brush about an entire religion based on the actions of certain individuals.

It seems you want to hijack it and turn it into one of your rants about Islam.

 

[68908]

So there are other people besides me that recognize the pathology in your thinking?

If you decontextualize certain passages you can come up with any sort of narrative you want. It seems you want to demonize Islam and found passages to do just that. I could do the same to the Bible, but that would offend the Christians on this forum, and that is not my intention.

The point of this thread is that if we need to apply the same standards used towards Muslims and Christians, and the fallacy of using a broad brush about an entire religion based on the actions of certain individuals.

It seems you want to hijack it and turn it into one of your rants about Islam.

Yes, they are called liberal collectivist.

I don't need to demonize, Islam. The passage says what it says. Then radicals take it to the next level and actually do what it says. Its very simple. It doesn't mean that every Muslim will actually kill for Allah, it doesn't mean that ever Muslim will lie for Islam, either.

By all means, show me in the Bible where it says its ok to sexual coerce a minor. It won't hurt my feelings any. Show me in the Bible where it says its ok to lie, in any circumstance. And by all means, take passages from the old testament that say to kill someone if they do not believe in your God. It won't hurt my feelings any. I really don't care if people "decontextualize" the Bible as you like to put it. It still says what it say.

Just what is your idea of the context with which the Qur'an said to smite the necks of non-believers?

Rant about Islam? You said this:

2) The Qur'an does condemn the shedding of[ b]innocent[/b] blood.
[17:33] Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)''

“Whoever kills a soul â€" unless for another soul or for corruption (vice and mischief spread) in the land â€" it is as if he had slain the whole of mankind. And whoever saves one â€" it is as if he had saved the whole of mankind.†[Surah Ma’idah 5:32]

And I used real passages and facts to refute that, very thorougly I might add, and you come back with personal and ad hominem attacks.

I'm sorry, bdee, you can say that passages have be "decontextualize" all you want, but passages in Religious Text still say what they say. You can mince words all you want, and the text still says what says.

By all means, quote passages from the Bible that says that its ok to sexual coerce a minor or kill non-believers. It won't bother me one bit.

 

[bdee]

Well it seems you want to hijack yet another thread with your anti-Muslim rants.

But no I won't take passages from the Bible out of context just so you can feel better about your own hatred.

But there is no real point in debating theology or its historical context, as you have your mind made up. As Mark Twain famously said, "It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It’s a waste of the teacher’s time and it irritates the pig."

 

[TippinTaco]

How many bibles is there? Well lets take a looksie:

There are 8 primary versions found in history:
Septuagint - 250 A.D. Written in Greek

Vulgate- 400 A.D. First version of the Bible which is canonized at the Council of Carthage in 400 A.D. Written in Latin

Luther's German Bible- 1534 A.D.

King James Version- 1611 A.D. This is the most widely used versions however it has large number of errors given that none of the writers had a decent understanding of Hebrew.

Revised Standard Version- 1952 A.D. Literal translation into American English which used the earliest possible text

New International Version- 1960's & 70's A.D. This is a very good contemporary English version

The Youngs Literal Translation is as close to the originals as you can get, translated by Robert Young in 1898 A.D.

So this basically saids through out history this book has been re-written SEVERAL times. A few of those times ti was re-written by some who didn't know hebrew well which leaves a loophole of things being misunderstoof or misinterpereted. So as time has passed on and its being re-done and misunderstood people put their own thoughts as to the meaning of the scriptures... hmmm sounds like a possible conspiracy to me..

:lol: Ok, so translations it counts for "how many bibles are there?" :rotfl2: Wow, you missed a bunch. You are not even in the 1% category.

And if you think the NIV is "very good" . . . well, I guess I do not need to go down that road. I'll just classify it as "reasonably reliable" if you have some other versions for comparison.

Oh, and your dating is way, way off for the Septuagint. You are not even in the right century. You did not even get the "AD" part correct. Maybe you should study a little instead of just getting stuff off of the internet and pasting it here.

As for Young's, it is useful, but a lot older manuscripts have been discovered since 1898.

As for the KJV, you fault their understanding of Hebrew, but they were not so good at Greek, either. Even where they got it right, some of the meanings from 1611 do not translate well into modern English, leaving people befuddled. They also sought to conceal the original meaning of the Greek verb baptizo (immerse) to accomodate a belief system of sprinkling or pouring. Unfortunately, every commercially successful translation since then has followed the KJV's lead, seeking to placate those who twist the meaning of the word to suit their own inventions. It is not really open to debate that this was not a misunderstanding of the word and how to translate it, but an intentional obfuscation of the meaning of the original text by the KJV translators.

I was hoping someone else did their home work so I didn't have too.. I failed horribly, my wife even corrected me on a few of them But my point is the fact that people kept re-writting the same f'ing book twisting things that may have been of their own opinion and not what was originally written, you should know how this works, lawyers do it all the time when reading and writting legal binding contracts. A normal person without a law degree or months to decipher whats been typed has to pay another lawyer to decipher the crap they write.

 

[rah45]

you should know how this works, lawyers do it all the time when reading and writting legal binding contracts.

Oh, snap.

:hide:

 

[68908]

Well it seems you want to hijack yet another thread with your anti-Muslim rants.

But no I won't take passages from the Bible out of context just so you can feel better about your own hatred.

But there is no real point in debating theology or its historical context, as you have your mind made up. As Mark Twain famously said, "It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It’s a waste of the teacher’s time and it irritates the pig."

Yep, call it a rant instead of actually arguing facts. Call it hatred instead of arguing the facts.

Maybe if you would actually try to argue the facts instead of making up lies about me and attacking me personally, you may could actually change my mind, but you won't try.

All you've done is argue Strawmen, and instead of actually debating me, you give some cop out quote :roll: The Christian thing, I never even brought up, you brought that up out of thin air and argued a point I never made.

Your debating skills are legendary, bdee. You learned from the best though, attack them personally when you can't debate them. Make them look crazy, as to blur the facts and me look illegitimate. Have you been studying Alinksy's Rules For Radicals? Because you've executed it perfectly. Maybe you just learned it from seeing out the collectivist argue so much. Either way, this isn't the first time you've tried to do this to me, it probably won't be the last. I'm onto you man.

Try arguing facts next time instead of making personal attacks.

 

[Hack Causality]

 

[bdee]

Well it seems you want to hijack yet another thread with your anti-Muslim rants.

But no I won't take passages from the Bible out of context just so you can feel better about your own hatred.

But there is no real point in debating theology or its historical context, as you have your mind made up. As Mark Twain famously said, "It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It’s a waste of the teacher’s time and it irritates the pig."

Yep, call it a rant instead of actually arguing facts. Call it hatred instead of arguing the facts.

Maybe if you would actually try to argue the facts instead of making up lies about me and attacking me personally, you may could actually change my mind, but you won't try.

All you've done is argue Strawmen, and instead of actually debating me, you give some cop out quote :roll: The Christian thing, I never even brought up, you brought that up out of thin air and argued a point I never made.

Your debating skills are legendary, bdee. You learned from the best though, attack them personally when you can't debate them. Make them look crazy, as to blur the facts and me look illegitimate. Have you been studying Alinksy's Rules For Radicals? Because you've executed it perfectly. Maybe you just learned it from seeing out the collectivist argue so much. Either way, this isn't the first time you've tried to do this to me, it probably won't be the last. I'm onto you man.

Try arguing facts next time instead of making personal attacks.

I am not going to bother arguing "facts" with people that would quote jihad watch as their source of information. Their website is an Israeli funded spin machine dedicated to stirring up fear with the express purpose of ensuring our continued military aid. Check out who your sources are before you quote them.

Nor am i going to argue passages taken out of their historical context, just to fuel your bigotry. I could give you a variety of primary documents about medieval Islam, my specialty, but you'd likely look within them to find justification for your hatred rather than what they are. So again what's the point?

So keep reading websites, designed to keep you fearful, it's how you want to feel anyhow, and it makes you feel better that your not alone in your hatred. Good luck.

 

[Owl]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/21/georgia.pastor.abuse/index.html?hpt=C1

Looks like it's not just a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing. If we are to use the same standards, and all Muslims are terrorists or support it, then all Christians are molesters or support it.

To take it a step further, why don't we hear condemnation from every Christian leader, unless of course, they condone this behavior.

Sounds kind of silly when you put it that way.

Nice try, the minister of our church has spoken out about this stuff on several occasions, even offers a "support" group and church funded counseling. Its a acknowledged problem in many churches. You may feel its been swept under the rug by the Vatican, and thats true to a certain extent. I can bring you to our church and our pastor will gladly speak to you about this, please provide me with the Imams that denounce Sharia law as violent. :righton:

Oh don't worry too much about bdee...he's feeding off gsusnake's vibe this week. Not sure if it's the full moon or what, but GPDO is suddenly an all out front in the war on anything "Christian." I guess when it gets slow around here, it's something to read at least. It's garbage, but it's something.... maybe they'll find another wanna-be "missing link" soon and that'll occupy 'em for a while. ( until they discover it's actually just another early human)

You guys are going to work yourselves up into a frenzy if you're not careful, and then what? Start rounding up the Christians for "preaching" to you or "praying for you" and burning them at the stake?

*yawn.....wake me when the flaming is over.....

 

[TippinTaco]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/21/georgia.pastor.abuse/index.html?hpt=C1

Looks like it's not just a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing. If we are to use the same standards, and all Muslims are terrorists or support it, then all Christians are molesters or support it.

To take it a step further, why don't we hear condemnation from every Christian leader, unless of course, they condone this behavior.

Sounds kind of silly when you put it that way.

Nice try, the minister of our church has spoken out about this stuff on several occasions, even offers a "support" group and church funded counseling. Its a acknowledged problem in many churches. You may feel its been swept under the rug by the Vatican, and thats true to a certain extent. I can bring you to our church and our pastor will gladly speak to you about this, please provide me with the Imams that denounce Sharia law as violent. :righton:

Oh don't worry too much about bdee...he's feeding off gsusnake's vibe this week. Not sure if it's the full moon or what, but GPDO is suddenly an all out front in the war on anything "Christian." I guess when it gets slow around here, it's something to read at least. It's garbage, but it's something.... maybe they'll find another wanna-be "missing link" soon and that'll occupy 'em for a while. ( until they discover it's actually just another early human)

You guys are going to work yourselves up into a frenzy if you're not careful, and then what? Start rounding up the Christians for "preaching" to you or "praying for you" and burning them at the stake?

*yawn.....wake me when the flaming is over.....

I like to think its in all good fun and discussion Owl. we're all adults, having a discussion that people outside this forum cant have because they're afraid they will offend someone. We all need to remember that these dicussions is what makes this country great. These convos would have us killed in some countries or worse our entire families murdered. It's another right our fathers gave us when they created the BOR and COTUS. Seriously from some history books and letters I've read the founding fathers had some pretty crazy conversations, franklin was one of the worst.

With Freedom Of religion comes the freedom to discuss it as well. As long as no one walks away at the end of the day thinking they were personally attacked, then nothing bad came from our discussions. It's easier to ask and discuss things here than it is in a public setting.

 

[elorei]

You guys are going to work yourselves up into a frenzy if you're not careful, and then what? Start rounding up the Christians for "preaching" to you or "praying for you" and burning them at the stake?

I am pretty sure that historically that is the passtime of Christians, not atheists. That said, if a genuine Christian prays for me or my family, I welcome it. It is nice to have someone divert their time and attention to you, even if you don't believe what thay are doing will have any effect.

The other side of that is the a la carte Christians who make it up as they go along, and use their religion as a way to feel superior. These folks need not pray for me, they need to pray for themselves.

As for your feeling of being oppressed, get over it. Christians are still the majority here, why do they feel so under the thumb of the minority. Get off the cross, we can use the wood for something else. All out war....really? Please.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

AJC this morning reporting that there are now released photos of himself in the bathroom mirror that he emailed. No further details were given, but that sounds really, really bad for his side of the lawsuit.

 

[TippinTaco]

AJC this morning reporting that there are now released photos of himself in the bathroom mirror that he emailed. No further details were given, but that sounds really, really bad for his side of the lawsuit.

Yep I got to see the pictures last night on Fox. These pictures weren't graphic it was a guy in a under Armor shirt posing in front of a mirror. Not to say there arent any bad pictures in the evidence tray they just didnt speak of them last night on the news.

 

[rah45]

AJC this morning reporting that there are now released photos of himself in the bathroom mirror that he emailed. No further details were given, but that sounds really, really bad for his side of the lawsuit.

Wow. You know, the bdee vs. EJR debate/fight went on for so long that I actually had to look at the title of the thread to remind myself what you were posting about.

:lol:

 

[budone1967]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/21/georgia.pastor.abuse/index.html?hpt=C1

Looks like it's not just a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing. If we are to use the same standards, and all Muslims are terrorists or support it, then all Christians are molesters or support it.

To take it a step further, why don't we hear condemnation from every Christian leader, unless of course, they condone this behavior.

Sounds kind of silly when you put it that way.

What happend to presumed inncoent in this country. Ifr this had been about anyone else other than a pastor of orther religious figure we wouldn't have three pages about it. :roll:

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

These pictures weren't graphic

Sounded worse without the picture and no details . . . :lol:

 

[luangtom]

opcorn:

 

[TippinTaco]

These pictures weren't graphic

Sounded worse without the picture and no details . . . :lol:

lol agreed. Word on the street (media) is that the 3 boys had broken into the pastors office and stole his Iphone that he's holding and thats how they got the pictures. Then again by looking at the 3 boys, it sorta brings to my attention they may have questionable sexual preferences but hey thats just me, I showed the picutres to a gay friend of mine and he said his gaydar was going off so who knows. His words was its a jailhouse gay not Drag queen gay. I love my gay friends,lol.

Hmm I'm seeing a similarity: