Lets say that a GFL holder enters McDonalds and is open carrying. Someone calls the police from their cell phone with a "man with a gun" call. LEO's arrive at the scene and question the "GFL holder". The GFL holder shows the LEO's his License. The LEO's then respond by stating that McDonalds is a "public gathering." The GFL Holder responds by politely saying that it is not. This goes back and forth for a couple of minutes. The LEO's decide to call their SGT. He arrives on scene. He sides with his officers and wants to arrest him for carrying a firearm to a "public gathering." What should the GFL holder do?
Is this just a hypothetical situation or do you know someone in said situation? Not that it matters too much, though. I'm just curious.
Well, GA law allows for the use of force to resist an illegal rest, but I wouldn't advise it in such a situation simply due to the other ramifications of doing so. Another course of action woulf be that you comply, bond out, and then pursue dismissal, expungement, and legal action for false arrest and civil rights violations under color of law. Of course, you could carry concealed and most likely avoid the whole thing.
That's why I rarely open carry. Especially in Yuppieville (aka Alpharetta), home of many, many GFWs. But, even concealed carry could provoke such a situation... So, what's a law abiding, properly licenced gun owner, who's not bothering anyone and simply going about his personal and private business to do, should that happen? Yeah, I know the "bond out, etc.", but that can be a hassle, and who wants to ride in the back of a (probably smelly and not too clean) squad car wearing handcuffs, get booked and spend the night with some of the area's most upstanding and finest individuals? So, I repeat the GG's original question, what's the best solution to such an incident? Just don't carry? Or what???
Make and carry your own pocket version of case law. I believe this very thing has already been settled in Georgia courts. Of course I know you won't be able to have a pocket version...but hey.
Don't say a word and see what they do. If they arrest you, post bond and get out. Then, sue their ass for illegal arrest and violation of your civil rights.
DOH!! I forgot to suggest asking if you are free to leave as soon as the officers make contact with you. --- I would strongly advise against getting into a shoot out or other physical confrontation over it even though GA law would allow you to use force to resist an illegal arrest. Try to discuss it calmly with the officers and appeal to reason by asking them if they are certain of the GA court rulings on public gatherings and again ask if you are free to go. The ride and bond and resulting feces are a far better option than fighting it out there in Mickey Dees.
This was the citation I was thinking that you should know. https://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/statevburns.htm
Sue Them??? Sue the cops for false arrest? How are THEY supposed to know the difference between a "public place" and a "public gathering"? They certainly aren't going to pick up on the distinction from READING THE LAW, the actual statute, because it's "clear as mud" as they say down in south Georgia. Are cops supposed to know important caselaw-- decisions such as the BURNS case from the Court of Appeals? Yeah, you could say that, when the statute is unclear they're supposed to know the ruling of the courts. The trouble is, BURNS only applies to fast-food restaurants. What if you get arrested for open carry someplace else? How about at a bank? Maybe there are several people waiting at the ATM, and you stand in line with them? Maybe at the local 7/11 convenience store. It could be anywhere. And there is no real way to know what's prohibited and what's allowed. Keep in mind that the Attorney General's unofficial opinions are advisory only, and binding on NOBODY, for any purpose. Even OFFICIAL A.G. opinions are only binding on state officers and agencies. Bottom line: Don't blame the cops if they mis-interpret this screwed-up law. The law itself should have been struck down years ago as overly vague. But the courts didn't have the nerve to do that, and perhaps it's a good thing, because then the law might ban guns "in public places" rather than at "public gatherings."
Is this kid for reals? Sorry gunsmoker, but if I screw up I cannot claim ignorance of the law. Should the police be any different? Are they to be held to a different standard?
You're probably right, it's not the cops fault the law is insane. I would be inclined to go after the cops if a Sgt showed up and recommended arrest. You would think that with at least 5+ years on the streets that he/she would have more than a passing familiarity with GA firearms laws, and know that open carry in a fast food restaurant is perfectly legal. I know that if it was going to cost me thousands of dollars to fight it, I would go after anyone I could in the process. I could potentially be fired or put on leave from my job if I'm even charged with a crime, so you had better believe I would explore all legal options. I'd sue the crap out of anyone that I could... even the cops.
The law is screwed up, and the court rulings and such don't make it easier to understand, but the fact of the matter is that while ignorance of the law is no excuse for the citizen, it is imperative for an officer to know if the charge is legally valid prior to infringing on a person's liberty and putting them in the system.
I am afraid I have to agree with gunsmoker on this one. If anyone was to read the original 1870 version of the PG law, then one would see that the wording alone suggests that carrying a gun anywhere the public is present is a violation
Re: Sue Them??? Monkeys might fly out of my arse. Debating or arguing with "mights" is futile. Would the state even entertain issuing GFLs if carrying in public was illegal? Not even NY is that stupid. I see no argument here. Ok... the scenario has been presented. An officer makes contact, inspects your GFL and "secures" your weapon for "his safety." He and his Sgt thinks you just violated the PG law and now they are going to take you in, no thanks to the GA code and case law printouts that you had on your person and offered to them. WTF can you do? FoShizzle knows what to do... Hell that's all you can do at this point. Now, of course the whole situation may not be as cut and dry as this. Your GFL and a polite attitude might get you a warning (don't be a spineless subject). Because criminals never conceal carry? Because GFL holders that conceal carry NEVER print? I've always wondered how much more likely are sheeple willing to phone in "man with a gun" if they see someone OCing vs. someone CCing and printing or doing a suckass job of CCing.
Re: Sue Them??? Even if printing somewhat the chances that somebody is going to recognize it as a gun are a lot less likely than it open carrying.
Printing can happen. It did to me today in Wal Mart as I was fumbling with my wallet I noticed the little cashier's eyes got really big really quickly. I didn't say anything and neither did she, but it was quite obvious she noticed my pistol and recognized it for what it was. I was a little concerned I may have frightened the girl, but maybe not. Anyway, as mentioned, printing can happen.