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Mass Public Unvaccinated Quarantine

8K views 93 replies 17 participants last post by  Malum Prohibitum 
#1 ·
#2 ·
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#3 · (Edited)
If it wasn't for unvaccinated children I'd say let Darwin take his course. With this Delta variant it looks like it's either going to be, you're vaccinated, or you're infected.

I'm not sure what the approach should be but I will say that politicizing mask and vaccinations is one of the more stupid things I've ever witnessed.

Was the polio vaccine politicized like the Covid vaccine? Honest question to which I don't know the answer.
.
 
#4 ·
With this Delta variant it looks like it's either going to be, you're vaccinated, or you're infected.
Infections are increasing - and Delta variants are on the rise. Hopefully it is nothing like last winter.

There are vaccinated Americans who have been infected with the new Delta variant, though, in response to your comment. Vaccination appears to protect greatly against hospitalization and death.
 
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#5 ·
I've been sick as a dog since last Thursday. No fever or cough, but definitely shortness of breath and somewhat sore throat. Just took the trash to the curb for pickup tomorrow morning and had to take a breather. It's only a hundred yards or so there and back.

I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine, but I'm avoiding a couple of friends who are still unvaccinated until I know what I've got.
 
#6 ·
I've been sick as a dog since last Thursday. No fever or cough, but definitely shortness of breath. Just took the trash to the curb for pickup tomorrow morning and had to take a breather. It's only a hundred yards or so there and back.

I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine, but I'm avoiding a couple of friends who are still unvaccinated until I know what I've got.
I did that 2 or 3 times last year (avoided older parents or church services). Never did catch it. Vaccinated now (Moderna here, too), but that is no guarantee you won't catch it and pass it on.


Hope you feel better soon.
 
#7 ·
I would be in opposition to quarantining anyone en mass. Vaccinated or not. If you have been vaccinated what is your problem with being next to someone that has not been vaccinated? If you have not been vaccinated that was your choice and it should not bother you that I have been vaccinated. If you have had either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine the virus can not live very lng in your system. From what I hear the only way you can pass it along is if you do so very quickly after getting it.
 
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#9 ·
#12 ·
“We have now a whistleblower inside the CMS, and we have two whistleblowers in the CDC. We think we have 50,000 dead Americans. Fifty thousand deaths. So we actually have more deaths due to the vaccine per day than certainly the viral illness by far. It’s basically propagandized bioterrorism by injection.”

And . . . who is it, where is it, why is a guy who is generally credible and cites to evidence making these outrageous claims with no evidence?
 
#13 ·
Even if the 50k dead is true, that's out of nearly 150 million fully vaccinated people. That's a .03% death rate, which is even less than the death rate from the virus. But as discussed in other threads, if that number is even remotely accurate, there is little link to the cause being the vaccine vs. The elderly and sick that died because they were elderly or sick and just happened to get the vaccine before they would have died anyway.
 
#15 ·
a virus with a 99.9% recovery rate?

Deaths at 80 years old plus range from 13% (South Korea) to 20.2% (Italy).

50-59 range from 0.5%1.3%

60-69 range from 1.8% to 3.6%

70-79 range from 4.8% to 12.8%


To get to your number (0.1%), you have to be talking only about children, or very young adults in some asian countries where body mass is not the same as the US.
 
#18 ·
99.9% is a whole population survival rate, not the infected survival rate. The infected survival rate is more like 95-96% in those over 40 and decreases with age. There have been roughly 33.9 million cases of (verified) covid in the US, which means you have a 1 in 10 chance in getting it. If we, for arguments sake, say that the 600K death count is attributable to Covid, you also have a 1 in 50 chance of dying if you catch it.

By simple math, a 1 in 10 chance of infection and a 1 in 50 chance of death due to infection gives an overall risk of 1 in 500 for death due to covid, or .2% risk. A 96% effective vaccine means you reduce your risk of death from COVID to .008%.

If 50,000 people truly died BECAUSE of the vaccine, then the risk of death by vaccine is .03%.

Total risk of death without vaccine: .2%

Total risk of death because of vaccine: .03%

Mathmatically, you are 7 times more likely to die from COVID than the vaccine.

If you get the vaccine and have no reaction like 99.97% of people so far, your risk of death from COVID drops to 0.008%

Furthermore, that 96% effectiveness is also a reducer in hospitalization. Your risk of hospitalization from Covid is 10% if you're infected. So a 1% total risk of expensive hospitalization and likely long term effects of COVID with no vaccine, vs. .04% risk of hospitalization with the vaccine. So risk of hospitalization is 25 times higher than without the vaccine.

Overall risk of COVID is small, but the vaccination risks are even smaller.

I'm not a proponent of vaccination, but I'm not afraid of it either and there is no reason to be.
 
#20 · (Edited)
...

By simple math, ...

Mathmatically, you are 7 times more likely to die from COVID than the vaccine.

I...
Your simple math is a little too simple for those under 29 years of age, including all their good or bad health conditions, and any race or political party.

Anyone evaluating their need for the vax needs to look at the risk/reward numbers for their age, not a meaningless lump of every age.

Recent analysis by the CDC says the under 29's are those who are lagging in getting the vax.
The news says the resisters are Trumpers (and a few Republicans as well). The news uses their own surveys, not CDC data.

Numbers I've seen vary a lot, but the chance of death due to Covid (real Covid, not died and had some positive Covid test after death) is way under 0.3% for the under 29 years old folks.

And this is without any early Ivermectin. By the way, the expected recent India crisis resolved itself a couple weeks ago and disappeared from the news. Interesting graph, quite a narrow peak. They may have found a solution short of a vaccine.
 
#19 ·
Numbers matter and yes the risks are very small. But going on an EUA rather than full approval is not sufficient for me.

Until full approval by FDA, no needles for me.

Nemo
 
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#21 ·
Another factor is in how many people actually catch it. My chance of catching it right now is about 10% (though probably a lot less, but I'll give you every advantage), times you 0.2% chance of dying from it (if it exists) means I have a 0.02% of dying from corona period which by your own number is about a third less chance than dying of a vaccine.
 
#22 ·
“Risk of catching it” isn’t accurately represented here. If not exposed, risk of catching it is 0%. If exposed, the chance is significantly higher than 0% meaning a 330M baseline for death rate grossly understates risk much like using shark attack rates in Blue Ridge Georgia as a baseline for shark attacks…
 
#33 · (Edited)
I think one of the things that exacerbated the "conspiracy theory idiots" was the numerous edicts from the CDC and others that sounded awfully like clear, informed direction which was very quickly revised.

Many people I know wrote off the legitimacy of the CDC' "leadership" with all of the press releases indicating with great precision, items such as the length of time that COVID was viable on exposed metal surfaces, the efficacy (or lack of efficacy) of cheap surgical masks. Many members of the general public may not be able to translate "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus", but you really don't need to be able to translate latin to understand that alleged experts that provide direction (and are lauded for being almost infallible) who then have to completely revise their recommendations deserve some level of skepticism.

A significant number of the population (The "I f*cking love science" team) are effectively members of the Church of Scientism, misunderstanding what science is. For people of that bent, when a scientist makes a proclaimation, it's a proclaimation ex cathedra and becomes canon behavioral law. The fact there was CLEARLY insufficient elapsed time for any certainty in the CDC's policy recommendations was ignored. The CDC didn't help by failing to emphasize that it was early in the epidemic and that new medical revelations might require a change of policy.

Me? I was always skeptical of the recommendations of the CDC precisely because this was a novel virus. That didn't make me ignore or become contrarian concerning their recommendations (especially in the early days) - it simply informed some of my choices.

1. Reduce the quantity (not the existence) of viruses on surfaces I was exposed to
2. Ensure basic hygiene measures are (more) scrupulously applied
3. Entertain the idea that the virus could be transmitted in aerosols and saliva particles via the mouth and act to mitigate their escape into the air in locations where a reduced viral load might be beneficial.
4. etc.

The problem (as always) is that most people are uneducated regarding basic hygiene, and the last thing the administration wanted was contradictory messages - which was precisely what they ended up with. The unfortunate thing is that most people ARE able to spot bullshit eventually, and that's precisely what the 'experts' provided in the early days, and the exercise has poisoned the well.

That lack of honesty surrounding the level of certainty that the CDC could provide has been highly detrimental to their reputation and may take years to repair. A little humility would have avoided that reputational risk.
 
#37 ·
For those I was and still am involved, we watched the news, including all the CDC/WHO press conferences and made our decisions based on the information available. This began late 2019 overseas. By Spring 2020, the information was clear the vast majority of people wouldn't have any issues and if infected, would have very mild symptoms for a few days. The majority of those the small percentage that would have issues would still survive. Since the beginning they've also said younger people will have near zero concerns due to good active immune system and now pushing to vaccinate children.

Many of your conspiracy idiots started looking at everything being called COVID, the moving goal posts, and many retracted/corrected statements. Numerous articles from people in the medical field being pushed to diagnose deaths as COVID even when from obvious other reasons. Videos of government officials stating their method is regardless of cause, if you have COVID at the time of death, it's COVID (even if heart attack, car wreck, etc). It's also concerning when any disagreeing article/video is removed without examining the value of the information. Including from doctors on the front lines. Especially ones saying don't vaccinate those that have previously been infected. I personally know people that have had it and those that have had it and have been vaccinated. The latter had issues with the vaccine.

I travel for a living. I'm middle aged. I kept doing the same as always. Washing my hands, covering coughs/sneezes, and have continued to live my life. We could all give anecdotal arguments to support our side. I've always said that if you're high risk, compromised immune system, etc to stay home and take precautions. Let the rest take their chance and live their lives and earn their living.

Fear is a wonderful tool.
 
#39 ·
There are reports the vaccine has effects on limiting fertility. I can cite no source but I have heard reports.

Nemo
 
#41 ·
There were 2 anti vax activists in Europe that wrote a letter claiming an ingredient in the vaccine caused infertility.

Problem is, that ingredient is not in any of the vaccines, and it does not cause infertility.

They published their own letter online and it went viral. It is false information.
 
#40 ·
I am surrounded by Millennials having kids. Conceptions, gestations, births, and nursing at all stages of vaccination. If it’s a concern, talk to your doctor for answers. It it’s still a concern, see a professional about freezing some potential progeny. Your chances of having offspring are zero if you’re dead. Your chances are greatly reduced if you can’t manage short spans of cardio due to lung scarring.
 
#46 ·
Well, the ground work is being laid for something, since this has been couched now as the "pandemic of the unvaccinated".

Wonder if that will entail travel bans enforced by armed government agents and/or forced quarantines in special buildings under government control and supervision for those who choose to not get the shot.

Perhaps enough education there will convince them.
 
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