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Man of Myth and Legend
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This course is available nationally. The audience composition will vary and include officials from public health, law enforcement, fire, emergency medical services (EMS), hospitals, emergency management, elected and general government officials, local association members, local emergency planning commission members, representatives from major employers in the area, as well as volunteer organizations.
 

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If it wasn't for unvaccinated children I'd say let Darwin take his course. With this Delta variant it looks like it's either going to be, you're vaccinated, or you're infected.

I'm not sure what the approach should be but I will say that politicizing mask and vaccinations is one of the more stupid things I've ever witnessed.

Was the polio vaccine politicized like the Covid vaccine? Honest question to which I don't know the answer.
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With this Delta variant it looks like it's either going to be, you're vaccinated, or you're infected.
Infections are increasing - and Delta variants are on the rise. Hopefully it is nothing like last winter.

There are vaccinated Americans who have been infected with the new Delta variant, though, in response to your comment. Vaccination appears to protect greatly against hospitalization and death.
 
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I've been sick as a dog since last Thursday. No fever or cough, but definitely shortness of breath and somewhat sore throat. Just took the trash to the curb for pickup tomorrow morning and had to take a breather. It's only a hundred yards or so there and back.

I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine, but I'm avoiding a couple of friends who are still unvaccinated until I know what I've got.
 

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I've been sick as a dog since last Thursday. No fever or cough, but definitely shortness of breath. Just took the trash to the curb for pickup tomorrow morning and had to take a breather. It's only a hundred yards or so there and back.

I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine, but I'm avoiding a couple of friends who are still unvaccinated until I know what I've got.
I did that 2 or 3 times last year (avoided older parents or church services). Never did catch it. Vaccinated now (Moderna here, too), but that is no guarantee you won't catch it and pass it on.


Hope you feel better soon.
 

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I would be in opposition to quarantining anyone en mass. Vaccinated or not. If you have been vaccinated what is your problem with being next to someone that has not been vaccinated? If you have not been vaccinated that was your choice and it should not bother you that I have been vaccinated. If you have had either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine the virus can not live very lng in your system. From what I hear the only way you can pass it along is if you do so very quickly after getting it.
 
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(avoided older parents or church services).
Some might be amazed by the number of people who that are able to do it and don't have the need or desire to be out in world at this moment in time have elected to stay in their compound as it were. I'm talking about people who live in an environment that many people pay money to be in. Beautiful surrounding, plenty of activities, Church services every Sunday morning thanks to modern technology. Well connected to the outside world without being there. The only negative thing about self isolation is the tinge of guilt of being content and at ease while so many face hardships. Could something come up to change that well hell yes there are no guarantees in life just as being fully shot up and still getting the bad.
 

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Was the polio vaccine politicized like the Covid vaccine? Honest question to which I don't know the answer.
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The polio vaccine distribution became a political hot point. Goldwater called it “socialized medicine sneaking in the back door”, and in general the Federal govt dropped the ball. I think ultimately polio was a horrific enough disease that the public just managed to get vaccinated with little help from DC.

Another political wrinkle was the vaccine testing itself; serological titres were referenced against the HeLa cell line, which came from a black woman. So that news story was suppressed as much as possible, because the notion that white children’s blood was being mixed with a black woman’s just didn’t play well in the early-mid 1950s (you can imagine the South just letting their kids die to avoid some kind of clinical miscegenation…)

Public health issues are political, period.

DH
 

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Grapefruit seed extract. You know the drill.
“We have now a whistleblower inside the CMS, and we have two whistleblowers in the CDC. We think we have 50,000 dead Americans. Fifty thousand deaths. So we actually have more deaths due to the vaccine per day than certainly the viral illness by far. It’s basically propagandized bioterrorism by injection.”

And . . . who is it, where is it, why is a guy who is generally credible and cites to evidence making these outrageous claims with no evidence?
 

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Even if the 50k dead is true, that's out of nearly 150 million fully vaccinated people. That's a .03% death rate, which is even less than the death rate from the virus. But as discussed in other threads, if that number is even remotely accurate, there is little link to the cause being the vaccine vs. The elderly and sick that died because they were elderly or sick and just happened to get the vaccine before they would have died anyway.
 

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Where is the evidence that it is better to take a "vaccine" with a 95% effective rate for a virus with a 99.9% recovery rate?

Why would you do that?
 

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a virus with a 99.9% recovery rate?

Deaths at 80 years old plus range from 13% (South Korea) to 20.2% (Italy).

50-59 range from 0.5%1.3%

60-69 range from 1.8% to 3.6%

70-79 range from 4.8% to 12.8%


To get to your number (0.1%), you have to be talking only about children, or very young adults in some asian countries where body mass is not the same as the US.
 

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To put it another way, if you are 18-29 in the United States, and the risk of death is labeled as "1," then your risk of death is 4X at 30-39.

40-49 10X

50-64 35X

65-74 95X

75-84 230X

85+ 610X
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I will take the 35X chance.

Nemo
 

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99.9% is a whole population survival rate, not the infected survival rate. The infected survival rate is more like 95-96% in those over 40 and decreases with age. There have been roughly 33.9 million cases of (verified) covid in the US, which means you have a 1 in 10 chance in getting it. If we, for arguments sake, say that the 600K death count is attributable to Covid, you also have a 1 in 50 chance of dying if you catch it.

By simple math, a 1 in 10 chance of infection and a 1 in 50 chance of death due to infection gives an overall risk of 1 in 500 for death due to covid, or .2% risk. A 96% effective vaccine means you reduce your risk of death from COVID to .008%.

If 50,000 people truly died BECAUSE of the vaccine, then the risk of death by vaccine is .03%.

Total risk of death without vaccine: .2%

Total risk of death because of vaccine: .03%

Mathmatically, you are 7 times more likely to die from COVID than the vaccine.

If you get the vaccine and have no reaction like 99.97% of people so far, your risk of death from COVID drops to 0.008%

Furthermore, that 96% effectiveness is also a reducer in hospitalization. Your risk of hospitalization from Covid is 10% if you're infected. So a 1% total risk of expensive hospitalization and likely long term effects of COVID with no vaccine, vs. .04% risk of hospitalization with the vaccine. So risk of hospitalization is 25 times higher than without the vaccine.

Overall risk of COVID is small, but the vaccination risks are even smaller.

I'm not a proponent of vaccination, but I'm not afraid of it either and there is no reason to be.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Numbers matter and yes the risks are very small. But going on an EUA rather than full approval is not sufficient for me.

Until full approval by FDA, no needles for me.

Nemo
 
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...

By simple math, ...

Mathmatically, you are 7 times more likely to die from COVID than the vaccine.

I...
Your simple math is a little too simple for those under 29 years of age, including all their good or bad health conditions, and any race or political party.

Anyone evaluating their need for the vax needs to look at the risk/reward numbers for their age, not a meaningless lump of every age.

Recent analysis by the CDC says the under 29's are those who are lagging in getting the vax.
The news says the resisters are Trumpers (and a few Republicans as well). The news uses their own surveys, not CDC data.

Numbers I've seen vary a lot, but the chance of death due to Covid (real Covid, not died and had some positive Covid test after death) is way under 0.3% for the under 29 years old folks.

And this is without any early Ivermectin. By the way, the expected recent India crisis resolved itself a couple weeks ago and disappeared from the news. Interesting graph, quite a narrow peak. They may have found a solution short of a vaccine.
 
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