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Police say Cavin answered the door holding a gun down at his side. They say he ignored repeated commands to show his hands, and ignored repeated commands to put his weapon down
Jones, and the couple's four month old baby witnessed the shooting. They were not harmed.

Jones claims Cavin never raised or pointed the gun at officers. She said her fiance knew officers wanted the weapon and was pulling it out to hand it to them.

"He did not point a gun at anyone," said Jones. "He pulled it out of his pocket and they immediately grabbed his arm."

She says she screamed "It's plastic! It's fake!" several times before Dolezal fired a shot.
 

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Its all about "officer safety" and "the children". logic, reason and common sense be damned, as long as the children are safe and the police go home, no big deal!! (scarcasm very high). I wonder if it had a bright orange tip??
 

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chainsaw123 said:
Its all about "officer safety" and "the children". logic, reason and common sense be damned, as long as the children are safe and the police go home, no big deal!! (scarcasm very high). I wonder if it had a bright orange tip??
Did you even read the article? Of course not. It shows a picture of the gun involved.

Even if it was there's absolutely nothing that can stop someone from painting the exposed portion of a real gun barrel orange. ::ehhem:: kwikr-whatever your name is.

Moral of the story, when you're told to "drop the weapon" that means "drop the weapon." Not extend your arm with it in your hand. You're either handing it to me or raising your arm to aim and fire. Either way I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
 

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MesaCranker said:
chainsaw123 said:
Its all about "officer safety" and "the children". logic, reason and common sense be damned, as long as the children are safe and the police go home, no big deal!! (scarcasm very high). I wonder if it had a bright orange tip??
Did you even read the article? Of course not. It shows a picture of the gun involved.

Even if it was there's absolutely nothing that can stop someone from painting the exposed portion of a real gun barrel orange. ::ehhem:: kwikr-whatever your name is.

Moral of the story, when you're told to "drop the weapon" that means "drop the weapon." Not extend your arm with it in your hand. You're either handing it to me or raising your arm to aim and fire. Either way I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
yes, I read the link in the second post, not the first so I may have missed the pic you speak of. Boy, stomp with both feet dont ya!! Kinda like shoot a golden retreiver running at ya because you are in fear for your life......I would call both situations a missed opportunity for a good resolution for both parties.
 

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He got what he deserved, I'm sorry, but that "toy" looks exactly like a P99, I don't care what a bystander is yelling, if someone goes to "hand me" the weapon by extending their arm with something that looks that close to a real gun.....they'll get the same treatment.

Take out the "us vs them" attitude typical of this board with regards to law enforcement and just boil it down to the facts: A man carrying what was intentially designed to look exactly like a real pistol, rather than simply drop it, tried to "hand it" to someone, and he got shot. If the majority of people on this board were in a similar situation, and that "toy" was in an arm that someone started extending in our direction, most of us would have shot him too.
 

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It sounds to me as if the man was given conflicting orders and was shot and tased because of resulting confusion (Nevada Costco shooting earlier this year). It is another good reason not to answer the door if the cops are the ones knocking.
 

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The airsoft pistol looked 100% real. It would have fooled me, and I own both real Walther pistols and a number of airsoft guns too.

The news article says that the suspect "brandished" the weapon at pointed it AT the officers. Now the dead guy's family says no he didn't.

Here's what I think:
If he was otherwise calm and trying to explain to them it's just a toy / BB gun, and holding it loosely at his side, they cannot legally shoot him for simply not obeying their commands. Just holding a gun in your hand shouldn't get you shot. Even if you don't drop it as ordered (and as common sense would tell you to do, even if you didn't hear the cops' words.)

If he did point it toward the cops, it's a good shoot. Tragic, but necessary.
 

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I find the girlfriends statement to be very revealing. She said he knew why the cops were there.

So he knew or believed that whatever his actions were with the workers is what resulted in the cops arriving at his door.

And he chose to answer the door gun in hand.
 

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chainsaw123 said:
MesaCranker said:
chainsaw123 said:
Its all about "officer safety" and "the children". logic, reason and common sense be damned, as long as the children are safe and the police go home, no big deal!! (scarcasm very high). I wonder if it had a bright orange tip??
Did you even read the article? Of course not. It shows a picture of the gun involved.

Even if it was there's absolutely nothing that can stop someone from painting the exposed portion of a real gun barrel orange. ::ehhem:: kwikr-whatever your name is.

Moral of the story, when you're told to "drop the weapon" that means "drop the weapon." Not extend your arm with it in your hand. You're either handing it to me or raising your arm to aim and fire. Either way I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
yes, I read the link in the second post, not the first so I may have missed the pic you speak of. Boy, stomp with both feet dont ya!! Kinda like shoot a golden retreiver running at ya because you are in fear for your life......I would call both situations a missed opportunity for a good resolution for both parties.
Sorry Chainsaw I didn't mean to come off as cross. :( My bad. :oops:

Dragon44 said:
I find the girlfriends statement to be very revealing. She said he knew why the cops were there.

So he knew or believed that whatever his actions were with the workers is what resulted in the cops arriving at his door.

And he chose to answer the door gun in hand.
The girlfriend's statement of him attempting to hand the weapon to the officer also paints the picture that he did somewhat extend his arm with it in his hand at the officers. Now she's just making up excuses for his actions. "He wasn't pointing at them to shoot them... he was pointing at them so that they would grab it." (my words not hers)
 

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If a cop ask for me to hand him my weapon I will clearly tell him I will lay it on the ground and you come get it and then I step away from it .I would never ever EVER attempt to hand a weapon real or fake to a officer . Sorry but I also would like to live another day without having trigger happy officers trying to say I was trying to shoot,point it at them.
 

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Tech5 said:
If a cop ask for me to hand him my weapon I will clearly tell him I will lay it on the ground and you come get it and then I step away from it .I would never ever EVER attempt to hand a weapon real or fake to a officer . Sorry but I also would like to live another day without having trigger happy officers trying to say I was trying to shoot,point it at them.
Plus the officer would be very negligent to ask someone to hand them their weapon anyway... assuming the reason s/he is asking for it is because s/he reasonably believes the person represents a violent threat.
 

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Yeah those evil, jack boot wearing thugs are full of crap because we all know family members would never lie about what REALLY happened. He was just an innocent victim that pointed at and threatened two guys with a gun, then answered the door with his own family admitting he knew it was the police and chose to STILL have the gun on him or in his hand. Either way it is tragic that an officer has to deal with this and the state/city will have to waste valuable manpower and payroll hours investigating the shooting of a complete idiot. :shakehead:
 

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mathar1 said:
Yeah those evil, jack boot wearing thugs are full of crap because we all know family members would never lie about what REALLY happened.
Cops never lie about what REALLY happens. :roll:
 

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kwikrnu said:
mathar1 said:
Yeah those evil, jack boot wearing thugs are full of crap because we all know family members would never lie about what REALLY happened.
Cops never lie about what REALLY happens. :roll:
:roll: Don't you have some antiquated inane firearm law to study so you can file another lawsuit?
 

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mathar1 said:
kwikrnu said:
mathar1 said:
Yeah those evil, jack boot wearing thugs are full of crap because we all know family members would never lie about what REALLY happened.
Cops never lie about what REALLY happens. :roll:
:roll: Don't you have some antiquated inane firearm law to study so you can file another lawsuit?
I can't file another lawsuit until more cops violate my civil rights.
 
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