Man accidentally shoots self...in CC class

A few excerpts that I found interesting:

The skill Seymour was learning when he died is not required to get a concealed weapons permit in Missouri. The state calls for instructors to cover such topics as basic marksmanship and safe storage of firearms at home during the eight-hour class.

Click to expand...

Peggy Siler, the co-owner of Ozark Shooters Sports Complex in Walnut Shade, said she had never heard of the technique Williams was teaching being used in a class to get a concealed weapons permit.

Click to expand...

Most CCW Permit classes are very basic and are designed for people with little or no training. Why would the instructor be teaching advanced skills in one? Why would he be teaching an advanced skill with loaded guns?

All I could think would be a cross-draw from a shoulder holster. Still, pretty dang skilled to shoot YOURSELF in the chest.

sounds like he was trying to spin the gun on his finger... but he didnt want to look AS stupid to the public so he made the rest up. Sorry guy, when I draw my weapon even with my left hand, the muzzle of my firearm HAS NEVER pointed at my chest... You sir was either showing off, or doing something dumb.. :help:

Good heavens. Forget about the appropriateness of advanced techniques such as weak hand presentation in a class that's supposed to be a safety course. It is the instructor's responsibility to ensure that there are no hot guns being used by anyone during the demonstration. The buddy system reinforces the habit and would have saved the new CCW a lot of pain and hospital expense. How could the instructor overlook this safety precaution, especially considering the lesson involved the participation of new gun people?

I would expect that MO revoke his credentials to lead a class on concealed carry. Unless the injured party loaded his gun on the sly right before the accident, the instructor is at fault and is full of fail.

Oh man. The poor guy is dead...I missed that on the first pass. Williams must be grieving right along side the friends and family of the deceased. Tragic but totally avoidable.

Not enough info to determine fault.. Nothing is stating it was in the middle of the class. He could've been practicing for an upcoming class. I'm still curious as to what this guy could've been doing to accidently shoot himself in the chest... At some point the muzzle would have to be pointed directly at his chest... I've shot a lot of guns since I was 9 years old.. I don't recall anyone of them ever being pointed at my chest.. I've drawn with my right hand and my left..

TippinTaco said:

Not enough info to determine fault.. Nothing is stating it was in the middle of the class. He could've been practicing for an upcoming class. I'm still curious as to what this guy could've been doing to accidently shoot himself in the chest... At some point the muzzle would have to be pointed directly at his chest... I've shot a lot of guns since I was 9 years old.. I don't recall anyone of them ever being pointed at my chest.. I've drawn with my right hand and my left..

Click to expand...

A southern Missouri sheriff and several weapons experts are examining the safety of classes required to obtain a concealed weapons permit after the accidental shooting death of a man during the class.

not enough text to determine what he was doing. I do not see how it is possible unless he perhaps lost his grip when he drew the weapon and accidentaly pulled the trigger to avoid dropping it maybe?

oldschool68 said:

not enough text to determine what he was doing. I do not see how it is possible unless he perhaps lost his grip when he drew the weapon and accidentaly pulled the trigger to avoid dropping it maybe?

Click to expand...

And this is why you always let a gun fall IMO. If it's a modern gun that has been properly maintained it should never go off from a drop.

Much more likely he just put his finger on the trigger as a natural an unthinking part of handling the gun.
This is S.O.P. for beginners, or anybody who has never been trained otherwise. It's the rule rather than the exception among casual gun owners and newbies. They regularly carry and handle and draw their weapons with a finger resting on the trigger. Back when the average handgun was a double-action revolver with a 12-pound DA trigger pull and a very long trigger stroke distance, this was not such a big deal. Today's Glock-type "safe action" triggers are lighter and shorter, and the kind of gun handling procedures that you could get away with 30 years ago won't fly today.

What "advanced technique" involves pointing a gun at yourself? The kind Roy Rogers did in the movies, loaded with blanks not real bullets?

He was playing with it, pure and simple.

Government oppression kills. If MO didn't require a permit to exercise a fundamental civil right one more person would be alive.

kwikrnu said:

Government oppression kills. If MO didn't require a permit to exercise a fundamental civil right one more person would be alive.

Click to expand...

You don't know that. He could have done the same in a private class or alone on the range.

And MO does not require a permit to OC in most jurisdictions including where this incident took place (Ava, Douglas County, MO)

Kingfish said:

kwikrnu said:

Government oppression kills. If MO didn't require a permit to exercise a fundamental civil right one more person would be alive.

Click to expand...

You don't know that. He could have done the same in a private class or alone on the range.

And MO does not require a permit to OC in most jurisdictions including where this incident took place (Ava, Douglas County, MO)

Click to expand...

The man was killed because he was attending a class in order to obtain a permit to exercise the right. If he did not need a permit to carry a gun he wouldn't have been at the class and would not have been killed. Government oppression killed that man.

kwikrnu said:

Kingfish said:

kwikrnu said:

Government oppression kills. If MO didn't require a permit to exercise a fundamental civil right one more person would be alive.

Click to expand...

You don't know that. He could have done the same in a private class or alone on the range.

And MO does not require a permit to OC in most jurisdictions including where this incident took place (Ava, Douglas County, MO)

Click to expand...

The man was killed because he was attending a class in order to obtain a permit to exercise the right. If he did not need a permit to carry a gun he wouldn't have been at the class and would not have been killed. Government oppression killed that man.

Click to expand...

I was going to come up with an example of how ridiculous that statement was. But, then I remembered who made it and decided it was a waste of keystrokes. So I'll just go with............

OMG!!!!!! Learning Kills!!!! anic:

lostprofit said:

OMG!!!!!! Learning Kills!!!! anic:

Click to expand...

Learning only kills when you're trapped in a gun free zone learning environment such as Columbine or Virgina Tech. Since the government set up those gun free zones it can be said that government kills.

kwikrnu said:

lostprofit said:

OMG!!!!!! Learning Kills!!!! anic:

Click to expand...

Learning only kills when you're trapped in a gun free zone learning environment such as Columbine or Virgina Tech. Since the government set up those gun free zones it can be said that government kills.

Click to expand...

Well, apparently he wasn't in a gun free zone, was he.

lostprofit said:

kwikrnu said:

lostprofit said:

OMG!!!!!! Learning Kills!!!! anic:

Click to expand...

Learning only kills when you're trapped in a gun free zone learning environment such as Columbine or Virgina Tech. Since the government set up those gun free zones it can be said that government kills.

Click to expand...

Well, apparently he wasn't in a gun free zone, was he.

Click to expand...

I didn't say he was in a gun free zone. I said he would not be dead if the government had not mandated he be trained to carry a gun. Government infringement on his fundamental right to bear arms caused the mans death.

kwikrnu said:

lostprofit said:

kwikrnu said:

lostprofit said:

OMG!!!!!! Learning Kills!!!! anic:

Click to expand...

Learning only kills when you're trapped in a gun free zone learning environment such as Columbine or Virgina Tech. Since the government set up those gun free zones it can be said that government kills.

Click to expand...

Well, apparently he wasn't in a gun free zone, was he.

Click to expand...

I didn't say he was in a gun free zone. I said he would not be dead if the government had not mandated he be trained to carry a gun. Government infringement on his fundamental right to bear arms caused the mans death.

Click to expand...

You can go back as far as you like and come up with a thousand reasons for the guy's death:
Had this country never been founded the man wouldn't have died either.

Ultimately, in the now, what killed him was not following the rules of firearms safety.