Land Grab

YZ#58 · 2010-12-23

Goverment taking more land away, will most likely lead to full wilderness designation. Ultimately, millions of acres will be off limits to various users and development. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40796163/ns ... vironment/ If I remember right, Clinton did alot of this. Really affects the western states the most.

Savvy Jack

· #2 · Dec 24, 2010

I am all for land preservation but 100% against Government intervention.

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TippinTaco

· #3 · Dec 27, 2010

I have no problem with this. As long as it doesn't remove anyone from their homes or destroy homes, then by all means deem it a WMA and call it a day. We have enough homes in this country and enough businesses that currently force wildlife out of its natural habitat. We destroy land to put in a sky scraper and parking decks daily. Lets use what land we already destroyed first then decide on creating more down the road. I'm not a green activist or anything, but I do see areas that were once BEAUTIFUL get turned into office buildings that never get businesses to move in. The housing boom is over, lets leave it that way.

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MrMorden

· #4 · Dec 27, 2010

TippinTaco said:
I have no problem with this. As long as it doesn't remove anyone from their homes or destroy homes, then by all means deem it a WMA and call it a day. We have enough homes in this country and enough businesses that currently force wildlife out of its natural habitat. We destroy land to put in a sky scraper and parking decks daily. Lets use what land we already destroyed first then decide on creating more down the road. I'm not a green activist or anything, but I do see areas that were once BEAUTIFUL get turned into office buildings that never get businesses to move in. The housing boom is over, lets leave it that way.

So...you're okay with privately owned land, much of which has been in families for generations, suddenly being "off limits" for those private individuals to do with as they see fit? Once you accept that idea, the whole concept of private property goes out the window. If they can do it for one purpose they can do it for any purpose. :screwy:

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bdee

· #5 · Dec 27, 2010

I don't think that's what he's saying at all.

If you open up all land to development it will, and then what happens to the natural beauty of this country?

If you look in SW Atlanta, there is so much unused land and properties. But instead we keep pushing further further and further out. Let's use the land we already have developed.

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Malum Prohibitum

· #6 · Dec 27, 2010

Did any of you read the article? This is about the Department of the Interior designating land it already manages as wilderness areas (actually "Wild Lands"), rather than Congress alone making such designations. This has nothing to do with private property.

It has a lot to do with whether BLM land will be leased for grazing rights, gas and oil drilling, mining, and other uses, or made into bison habitat.

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TippinTaco

· #7 · Dec 27, 2010

Malum Prohibitum said:
Did any of you read the article? This is about the Department of the Interior designating land it already manages as wilderness areas (actually "Wild Lands"), rather than Congress alone making such designations. This has nothing to do with private property.

It has a lot to do with whether BLM land will be leased for grazing rights, gas and oil drilling, mining, and other uses, or made into bison habitat.

Ya caught me MP

I was just stating my opinion on what I assumed was going to be a federal land grab

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YZ#58

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 27, 2010

I guess the point I was wanting to make is that the government has taken away plenty of land and has designated it as "wilderness" or has made it "roadless". My other hobby is dirtbikes, and being able to ride on federal land in states such as Utah, and Colorado is important to me. As I said, this has affected the western states the most. But we are talking millions... of acres of land, no longer accessible to end users... us. SO much land is now off limits to recreational users, it is no longer FUNNY.

And it sure seems like a coincidence that the people that want to do this, also believe that individuals owning firearms, handuns, ASSUALT rifles, etc., is a bad ideal.

A lot of this land is typically desert or wasteland. Gotta watch out for the egg miltch plant or whatever it is called. This also makes it where no oil drilling can be done either. Gotta go 50 miles offshore, gee I wonder if that causes any problems. Not sure what everyone else thinks, but oil is over $90/barrel, it is time to start "drill here, drill now". Oh, wait, can't drill here, it's a wilderness...

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pml

· #9 · Dec 27, 2010

No problem with it. The area where I hunted last fall, a National Forest, was posted with no trespassing signs and cross-fenced for cattle. The camp site was knee deep in cow :cantsay: until we cleaned it up. Some National Forest.

We could still ride the ATVs, with a CO permit.

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JiG

· #10 · Dec 28, 2010

~sniff sniff~ I smell T. Boone Pickens. Yup, this stinks. "Where the Buffalo may be able to roam" or rather "where the wild horses may roam"..... sounds so pretty. Sends a tingle up my leg.

This isn't a land grab. It's a water grab.

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TippinTaco

· #11 · Dec 28, 2010

YZ#58 said:
I guess the point I was wanting to make is that the government has taken away plenty of land and has designated it as "wilderness" or has made it "roadless". My other hobby is dirtbikes, and being able to ride on federal land in states such as Utah, and Colorado is important to me. As I said, this has affected the western states the most. But we are talking millions... of acres of land, no longer accessible to end users... us. SO much land is now off limits to recreational users, it is no longer FUNNY.

And it sure seems like a coincidence that the people that want to do this, also believe that individuals owning firearms, handuns, ASSUALT rifles, etc., is a bad ideal.

A lot of this land is typically desert or wasteland. Gotta watch out for the egg miltch plant or whatever it is called. This also makes it where no oil drilling can be done either. Gotta go 50 miles offshore, gee I wonder if that causes any problems. Not sure what everyone else thinks, but oil is over $90/barrel, it is time to start "drill here, drill now". Oh, wait, can't drill here, it's a wilderness...

I understand where you're coming from I really do. BUT and yes there is one, I for one am just like you when it comes to dirt bikes and off-roading, some here can contest to that since I took them on a 4-wheel drive trip through Anderson Creek few months back. But not all but some people ruin great things, and they dont even care. They destroy property that once was beautiful. Donuts, yanking trees down, cutting paths through the mtns with their winches and demo saws. Fact is bro some things just need to be left alone, and if the Gov can protect that, then so be it. My local law enforcement don't necessarily care thats for sure, so someone needs to. DNR is stretched so thin that theres MAYBE 1 person that patrols 5k square miles of forest, I personally know Merideth, she patrols Nimble Will side and sadly they have to lock off trails to TRY to persuade people to not use them due to erosion. 9 out of 10 times some kids and EVEN adults winch up, and yank trees and rocks out around the fence and drive on by.

We're destroying what makes this country beautiful and unfortunately its at a cost. Look at the Great Smokie Mtns for example. The most visited national park in the United States. They're on the brink of shutting it down due to pollution issues and acid rain. If you wanna visit it during that time, you have to hike in to enjoy it and honestly thats how it should be. I for one hate Gov control, but there is some things they have to help with and this should be one of them.

without some sort of control:

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MrMorden

· #12 · Dec 28, 2010

TippinTaco said:
without some sort of control:

What's the problem? I see miles of forest in that picture. :righton:

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TippinTaco

· #13 · Dec 28, 2010

MrMorden said:
TippinTaco said:

without some sort of control:

Click to expand...

What's the problem? I see miles of forest in that picture. :righton:

I was going for dramatic effect

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YZ#58

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 28, 2010

TippinTaco said:
YZ#58 said:

I guess the point I was wanting to make is that the government has taken away plenty of land and has designated it as "wilderness" or has made it "roadless". My other hobby is dirtbikes, and being able to ride on federal land in states such as Utah, and Colorado is important to me. As I said, this has affected the western states the most. But we are talking millions... of acres of land, no longer accessible to end users... us. SO much land is now off limits to recreational users, it is no longer FUNNY.

And it sure seems like a coincidence that the people that want to do this, also believe that individuals owning firearms, handuns, ASSUALT rifles, etc., is a bad ideal.

A lot of this land is typically desert or wasteland. Gotta watch out for the egg miltch plant or whatever it is called. This also makes it where no oil drilling can be done either. Gotta go 50 miles offshore, gee I wonder if that causes any problems. Not sure what everyone else thinks, but oil is over $90/barrel, it is time to start "drill here, drill now". Oh, wait, can't drill here, it's a wilderness...

Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from I really do. BUT and yes there is one, I for one am just like you when it comes to dirt bikes and off-roading, some here can contest to that since I took them on a 4-wheel drive trip through Anderson Creek few months back. But not all but some people ruin great things, and they dont even care. They destroy property that once was beautiful. Donuts, yanking trees down, cutting paths through the mtns with their winches and demo saws. Fact is bro some things just need to be left alone, and if the Gov can protect that, then so be it. My local law enforcement don't necessarily care thats for sure, so someone needs to. DNR is stretched so thin that theres MAYBE 1 person that patrols 5k square miles of forest, I personally know Merideth, she patrols Nimble Will side and sadly they have to lock off trails to TRY to persuade people to not use them due to erosion. 9 out of 10 times some kids and EVEN adults winch up, and yank trees and rocks out around the fence and drive on by.

We're destroying what makes this country beautiful and unfortunately its at a cost. Look at the Great Smokie Mtns for example. The most visited national park in the United States. They're on the brink of shutting it down due to pollution issues and acid rain. If you wanna visit it during that time, you have to hike in to enjoy it and honestly thats how it should be. I for one hate Gov control, but there is some things they have to help with and this should be one of them.

without some sort of control:

TippinTaco, I know exactly what you are talking about, ATV's, dirtbikers, 4wheelers, all have too many morons that ruin it for everyone else. I used to ride in Paulding County on the City of Atlanta's 10,000 acres. Till too many people dumping trash, and making big mud holes everywhere, had it made into a WMA. Off limits now.

But I think this is a different issue from that altogether.

This wilderness classification makes it too where no vehicle access is allowed anymore. At least for the general public anymore. If I remember right, Utah was going to loose a lot of land this way, and their former Governor (who was pro OHV) raised a fuss about it, and had it reversed.

And yes, I am not real big on clear cutting forests, but people need jobs, just not sure where do you dray the line at??

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