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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Home Invasion in Oklahoma, mine (<-- OP on XDTalk, not GPDO!)

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... aftermath-

We are all ok thanks to my wife. There is no way to prepare for a phone call from your wife while you are at work that go exactly like this:

Me: Hi sweetie!
Wife: I need you home now, I just shot two invaders!
Me: On the way now! (end of call)

Here are a couple of links to the story:

Mother shoots two home invaders - KFOR

Homeowner Shoots Robbers, Kills 1, Police Say - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City

Midwest City woman tells police she shot and killed intruder | NewsOK.com

Feel free to search my name here for a post that was titled "What would you do" a couple of months ago. I'm just too tired to find it right now.

We moved everything we own out of the house and into storage for now due to threats against my family. We ended up needing over nine hours of Midwest City PD protection due to this situation. If you are one of them, all I can say is thank you with all of my heart!

Since most of us are here to learn and prepare ourselves for this type of situation, I plan on doing a full right up at a later date to try and help all of us and I would like very must to make it as interactive as possible.

It may be several days before I can get back on here as my like has been turned upside down right now but i welcome your thoughts and comments. The police have my XDm 9mm in their possession and I may not get it back in time for a pistol class I was going to be taking on Sunday but then again a guess I just need my wife to show me what I need to know...

Thanks to all of you over the last year as I visit this site several times daily. Even though I don't say much here I have learned a great deal.
It may be unfair but I think many of us should expect a similar experience if we're ever called to defend our hearth and family from an invader. Very somber read. Have many of us considered arranging for the bio-hazard cleanup after a shoot in the home? I've just sent it to my better half and the only family I have that espouses self defense, the new husband of my niece and new dad that just picked up his GWL this week. He only recently learned that PD doesn't have an obligation to safeguard the public. Thankfully he's seen the benefit of having a weapon license and now also has a handgun in the home. Only if more of my family lived in free America.
 

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Just a heads up, the links are not working. Not sure if its my computer or what though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
fire8310 said:
Just a heads up, the links are not working. Not sure if its my computer or what though.
Fixed, thanks.
 

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If she's having to deal with the aftermath, it means she's alive. Actions, even justified actions, have consequences. Bu she's alive to deal with them.

Hope they get it all sorted out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Without a doubt. But the way their lives have been turned upside down after the shoot is hard to accept. The world is indeed crazy.
 

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I am glad to hear that everyone is safe in your family. I took full custody of my two children away from their mother due to violance and gang issues and there has been threats made to kill my wife, my stepson (11) and our daughter (3) and take the kids. Since then I have been teaching my wife the finer points of Combat shooting as well as house defence. One thing I always tell her is that you will never be prepared for the 'aftermath' of dropping the hammer on another human life regardless of the situation. This is a lesson I learned in 1989 in Panama (Operation Just Cause) and since then I have been able to come to terms with the 'cause and effect' of those situations. The ability to deal with it later served me well in Iraq.
I think it should be told (and told again) to everyone who carries, newbie or vet, "are you prepared to take another mans life, even justifiably so? Are you willing to get some sort of aftermath counselling?
Just thoughts from a Combat vet who has been there and done that both in combat and in home defense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the kind words Icarry but this incident happened to a fellow in Oklahoma, not to me personally. As far as counseling, I imagine whether it would be necessary depends on your personality, strength of your convictions, and what ever else comes into play in shaping our psyche. The people that you wouldn't think would need to talk about it tend to and those that you think would be devastated by taking a life not so much. Go figure. Something to think about either way as a possibility.
 

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I can honestly raise my hand and say i wouldnt think twice about it if I had to pull the trigger on another humanbeing that was a danger to mine or my families life. This isn't Mayberry 1955 anymore. This is 2010, we have people who will kill just to kill. we have people that murder others for $55 or a handfull of change. The inly thing I hate is having to shell out the cash to pay for the cleanup of my home of brain matter and boldily fluids. Thats gotta be costly if you ask me.
 

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There may be some situations where you have the legal green light to shoot, but you don't really "have to" just yet.
You can afford to hold you fire and see what the other guy does.
You can try backing away, apologizing, de-escalating the situation, etc.
And you should consider the tremendous hassle and expense of being charged with murder or some other major felony before you pull the trigger in those kind of situations.

Hypothetical example. On the streets of Atlanta, an aggressive panhandler asks for money. You say no, he gets mad and pulls out a regular sized pocket knife. He's 15 feet away from you. You draw your gun. He screams real loudly, in front of 50 witnesses and while standing in front of two security cameras, "I'll kill you, you M-F'er!"
But he doesn't rush you with the knife.
You pull your gun and aim it at him.

Can you shoot?
A guy is dangerously close to you, brandishing a deadly weapon, and he's angry and making threats to kill you.
You're totally innocent up to this point. Can you shoot him center of mass and just take him out of this world right on the spot? The law of Georgia would say so.
But what does the practical law of Atlanta say?
Let's pretend the angry bum with the knife is African-American, like most of the jurors in the Fulton County jury pool would be. Let's say you're a well-dressed white guy from the suburbs 50 miles from Atlanta. Remember this. You're an outsider.
Are you SURE that all the Atlanta cops, witnesses, prosecutors, judges, and jurors will agree that you're the innocent victim and you acted totally reasonably in killing one of their fellow Atlantans? Are they going to rubber-stamp their approval of you shooting down that poor sick addict just for mouthing off at you?
You would probably win an acquittal, at the trial level or on appeal.
But do you realize how much it would cost you to defend yourself?

I'm just saying. Might be better to back away, increase the distance between you and the bum to about 50 feet, then holster your weapon and leave. Call the cops from a couple blocks away, out of sight of the angry bum.
 

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:goodpost: The correct answer to when can I shoot is when you have no other choice. Even then things might not go your way. The Harold Fish case should be read by everyone that carries a gun.

http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I watched a program last week on Personal Defense TV that examined the time it takes for a knife wielding attacker to close the distance at 21 feet. Even with the participant fully expecting the dummy on a motorized base to rush him, he could barely clear leather and get off a shot before the knife was on his gut. By the time shot two followed, he had already been severely injured. And that was at 50% greater distance than the situation you've put before us.

Don't think for very long about whether you intend to defend yourself at 15' from anyone that yells he's going to kill you and has the means. All of the rest of that stuff you talk about be damned. By the time you perceive he's going to rush, it may be too late because you were trying to see what he's actually going to do instead of taking immediate, protective action.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 

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Moga: In my scenario you DO draw your weapon and point it at the knife-wielding bum.
My issue is whether or not you pull the trigger.
The famous "Tuelle Drill" training exerise and experiment involved the defender with a still-holstered gun.
It may take the average police officer 1.5 seconds to draw from a holster and fire (without aiming, just pointing)
but it only takes 0.25 or 0.33 of a second for somebody with their gun already out to shoot it.
 

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I think in that situation I would draw and maintain a state of "low ready", meaning my weapon in 'HOT' but aimmed at the ground just in front of the would be attacker, I would judge the situation at that time....does he advance while at gunpoint? or does he pause?.....do I have the chance to take that step back and diffuse the situation?......All those come into play.
And like Gunslinger said.......you are the outsider....are you gonna get the fair trial or are you spending your grandkids inheritance trying to defend your justifiable shoot to a biased community.
Either way.....when you draw.......Make sure you are ready for the aftermath, if any (and there always will be)

As for me personally, If I draw, I am showing my intent to escalate the situation if needed.......If I aim......it is over, I am going home to my wife and kids, and lord willing so are the innocent bystanders and would be victems. But if I have the chance to lower the situation without dropping the hammer I would....and be glad to do it, but not every situation affords that chance.

But again...it is just my oppinion.
 

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Here is my answer: He was coming at me even with my weapon drawn...I had no choice but to defend myself with deadly force!

Thats my story and I am sticking to it!
 

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Savvy Jack said:
Here is my answer: He was coming at me even with my weapon drawn...I had no choice but to defend myself with deadly force!

Thats my story and I am sticking to it!
Officer: Did it really require the use of 12 rounds of ammunition?

Me: Well, I fired twice, that did the trick, but then there were some bystanders who have never shot a weapon and I figured there was no time like the present to teach gun control......."Now you hold it with both hands like this........." 8)
 

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IcarryOPEN said:
Officer: Did it really require the use of 12 rounds of ammunition?

Me: Well, I fired twice, that did the trick...
"...as for the other ten rounds, there's no law against shooting a corpse, is there? ..."
"...as for the other ten rounds, it looked like he was turning zombie on me ..."
"...as for the other ten rounds, call 'em cheap insurance ..."

[/bad_taste]
 

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:pointlol:
 

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I just did a quick Google search of "crime scene cleanup" and got pages and pages of hits just in the Atlanta area.

There are lots of companies out there who will, for a price, clear away all the blood, guts and body parts.

Talk about scary! Who would have thunk it?

Damn!!!!!!!!
 

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If you've killed someone in your home, in self defense, I would think you would still find yourself thinking about moving. If the perp was a gang member, his pals are going to try to even the score. A relative of the perp may also try to get revenge. I wouldn't want my family living in fear of retaliation. The decision to take a life has ramifications that go far beyond "clean up". I'm able to take that life, or lives, should the need arise. Living with it would be diffficult, and a major life changer.

It's one thing to take a life in combat, where everything is fluid, you maintain some anonymity, and your target often remains faceless. It's still another to stay in the house where you've taken a life, and walk over that spot every day, live in fear of retaliation, and your name is plastered all over the news. I think most folks are moving.
 
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