just when I had heavy and slow versus small and fast settled

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by moga, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. moga

    moga New Member

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    ...I read that a pit-bull survived head shots from a 9mm at point blank range. IMO a medium-sized dog, at best, surviving such an injury does not inspire confidence in this caliber for self defense.

    I had my first instruction on a .45 pistol and purchased a 1911 as my first firearm acquisition. Contrary to conventional wisdom, this has worked out fine for me. But with ammo prices being what they are, I shoot much more 9mm than 45. In fact, I was planning to purchase a large capacity 9mm for every day carry until now.

    I bought into the idea of having double the number of rounds in a double stack 9mm would be just as effective as half as many 45 cartridges in my current carry. Yet, I have to think that over. What good does 15 rounds of 9mm when there's only time to get off a few? I feel certain that 230 grains of hollow point at point blank range would have ended the threat from the dog the first time. As a result, it appears that a little more soul searching is in order for this operator.

    I don't intend to start any flame wars over pistol caliber, only to share this story with others as food for thought.

    "...Erickson, 22, was walking up to his house on 400 South near 700 West in Orem on Wednesday when a neighbor's pit bull bit him from behind. As he rode his scooter to his house around 8:30 p.m., Erickson saw the dog sitting calmly while a neighborhood girl petted it. Then he parked and took three or four steps toward his house when the dog bit him.

    "All of a sudden the dog grabbed my leg from behind," he said.

    He swung his scooter helmet at the dog, which backed off for a moment. But when the dog charged forward, Erickson, who has a concealed weapons permit, drew his 9-millimeter pistol and fired at the dog's head. Erickson said he worries about what would have happened if he hadn't been armed."

    Full story here: http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/237778/3/
     
  2. GunNut

    GunNut New Member

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    It doesn't say, but I'd have to think the round penetrated the skull. The vet bills seem a little high if it just grazed off.

    If it did penetrate the skull, then I would think a .45 would have had a greater effect....Assuming a single shot...however, it still may not have dropped him.

    If a 9mm was sufficient to penetrate the skull, then it was sufficient to get the job done. He should have fired a couple more times.
     

  3. RepeatDefender

    RepeatDefender New Member

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    I don't buy into the caliber discussions much either.

    That being said, why fire only one round at the threat? It doesn't matter what you carry, from .22 to 10mm. If you feel your life is threatened, continue firing till there is no longer a threat.
     
  4. Marikhal

    Marikhal Guest

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    Hmm.

    I hate caliber wars. :|

    I'm confident that my 9mm will protect me well-enough if I ever had to use it.
     
  5. Axeman

    Axeman New Member

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    Can't we all just get along? :wink:
     
  6. moga

    moga New Member

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    My intuition suggests if the round DID penetrate the skull, then there'd be little for a veternarian to do. Unless that vet was also a neurosurgeon.

    That's only my deduction, and admittedly doesn't count for much else.

    I also don't really get into these caliber discussions much. Mostly because there are usually two sides yelling to convince the other of the superiority of their personal choice. Each of us must decide for ourselves and I certainly have no opinion on another's assessment of his defense needs. Having said that, I hope y'all don't mind while I think out loud about my own.

    After all, a .380 in the hand is still better than a [insert caliber preference here] in the truck. :lol:
     
  7. pro2am

    pro2am New Member

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    We've all heard stories of the person walking around for 20 years with a bullet in the head. This might be one of those cases where the trajectory of the bullet was just right so as to not cause damage.

    I have confidence that my 9 will work fine.
     
  8. moga

    moga New Member

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    Listen, guys. If you carry a nine, I meant no offense by reconsidering my personal choice of carry. Jesus. I own 9mms, I shoot them. If nothing else, I'd love to have one in time of need. My comments wasn't meant to provoke any kind of pissing contest.

    In other words, this is NOT a caliber war. I have said this from the outset. Please don't make it so.

    Anyhoo, I've heard more stories about [email protected] terriers in the last year than I have ever before. Any ideas about why? My first thought is that it's being reported more often, but it's not just that. It's the actions of the dogs that seem to becoming more unbelieveable.

    I love dogs and have owned a Staff terrier in the past. I know that the American terrier community is rife with inbreeding, which contributes to serious problems with tempermanent. In spite of the fact that poor upbringing is a significant contributor to aggressive pets, I'm not so sure that I could go back to this breed. Not without knowing exactly from where it came, at least two generations back.

    It's hard enough to secure house insurance with my Bullmastiff. I couldn't imagine how hard it must be owning a bull terrier now-a-days.
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Nah. You deserve everything you get. How dare you question the efficacy of the 9mm. You will never be forgiven. Ever.

    :lol:

    (Just carry your .45 without comment) :wink:
     
  10. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    (disclaimer - I can't read the whole article due to work filters...)

    He grazed the dog most likely. Thus the vet bill, the doc probably had to put a couple of stiches in the mutts scalp. Maybe even put an ear back on or something. LOTS of ways that any kind of round could strike the head & not come close to being fatal. He could have even missed & it was just muzzle flash that burned the dog or something. After all it doesn't say the guy put the muzzle between the dogs eyes and then fired... :roll:

    My thought is that if one story which doesn't give serious details regarding the impact location, angle of the round etc etc (and I don't know why it should, only guns nuts like us are really going to have the slightest interest in that kind of thing) is enough to sway your preference from one caliber to another then you weren't very confident in your choice to begin with.

    I have little doubt that if most of the people on this board had been in that situation we would have fired until there was very little head left for the vet to look at much less fix.

    As for why all the media hype on this type of dog...
    *shrug*
    My guess is it's just their turn.

    Back in the late 80's it was dobies, then rotties, german shepards had their turn also. When a dog gets popular - via tv or music or whatever - then more people want that breed. So less careful breeding starts happening. Then you end up with less than desirable dogs being owned by people that want them because they are "cool" or fashionable or whatever instead of because they love/respect/understand the breed.

    1+1+1 = accident waiting to happen.

    A 3 time inbred dog that weighs in at 110+ pounds of solid muscle & bone to a young person who doesn't understand the breed or how to raise a dog right and you are bound to have problems.

    Give it a few years & soon the most horrible breed of dog will change to somethign else.
     
  11. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    Oh. I forgot.

    I'll take more 9mm going right where I want it to go over less of something bigger going close to where I want it to go.

    :neener:
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    The article states that the dog survived a shot in the top of the head.
     
  13. pro2am

    pro2am New Member

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    Maybe it was so stupid from inbreeding that it didn't know it should die.
     
  14. misawa

    misawa New Member

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    :-k
    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've read somewhere that a dog's skull, especially along the top of the head, is extremely dense, more so than a human - therefore making it not such a good target. Seems to me that if you're close enough to shoot the head, you should be able to fire a couple of rounds into the area under the head or just behind it. Even a shot to the rear pelvis will most likely end the attack providing it breaks something.

    Maybe I read wrong?
     
  15. USMC - Retired

    USMC - Retired Active Member

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    Whoever wrote that never met GeorgiaGlacker. Talk about dense! His skull is solid bone! :lol: :neener:
     
  16. gsusnake

    gsusnake Token Liberal Hippie

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    +1

    More mag capacity than the .45 guys, more "power" than the 9mm guys.
     
  17. budder

    budder Moderator Staff Member

    And more time spent aiming follow-ups! Woo .40!
     
  18. gsusnake

    gsusnake Token Liberal Hippie

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    Only if you've got something made of plastic... Glock, HK, XD.

    REAL guns stay on target.