[mzmtg]

Being armed doesn't have much to do with the tools at hand. This is awesome:

So is this:

 

[Rugerer]

Looks like both of their minds got "set" pretty good...

 

[JiG]

The first video looks like the defender took a couple gunshots.

 

[Suburbbus]

The first video looks like the defender took a couple gunshots.

I wondered the same thing. Did the first guy get shot while he was down on the floor as the BG pointed the gun at him and then ran for the door?

 

[guitarded_1]

Looks like the first guy anticipated knocking out the BG (not a bad idea), and ended up on the wrong end of the gun. The second guy looks just plain stupid. Bottom line - do not make a stand against a gun unless you are sure you can get control of it and maintain that control. Wildly swinging a chair and hoping the BG doesn't have the balls to shoot is a BAD idea.

 

[TimBob]

Looks like in both vids the defenders failed to secure the weapon from the BG. That can lead to serious death or injury... :screwy:

 

[gunsmoker]

I would have figured that if you smash somebody's head with a glass bottle full of liquid and sealed, it would be like hitting them with a heavy short club.
I would have predicted the bottle would not break, but they would have their skull caved-in and they'd go down.
Live and learn.
Of course, some people react the same way to some gunshot wounds.

You sneak up on the robber and shoot him in the back of the head with your .38 snubby, the bullet ricochets off his skull but does not enter the brain vault, he turns around mad as heck and counter-attacks you.

Life does not always go as planned.
Another reason to consider just staying behind cover and watching the robbery go down, but don't provoke the bad guy to shooting.

 

[Pandashire]

Those Mythbuster guys did the beer bottle empty/full test.

 

[AV8R]

I applaud both men. The first guy could have been terminally ill and had already looked forward to meeting his maker. He may have decided that his "soon to end life" was worth risking in order to save the woman's life. The whole "you never know" game is a two way street.

Bottom line - do not make a stand against a gun unless you are sure you can get control of it and maintain that control.

Reminds me of this:

I've always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." I don't know what kind of soldier I'm gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.

 

[guitarded_1]

I applaud both men. The first guy could have been terminally ill and had already looked forward to meeting his maker. He may have decided that his "soon to end life" was worth risking in order to save the woman's life. The whole "you never know" game is a two way street.

Bottom line - do not make a stand against a gun unless you are sure you can get control of it and maintain that control.

Reminds me of this:
[quote="Russell Ziskey":325ojngh]I've always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." I don't know what kind of soldier I'm gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.

[/quote:325ojngh]

Huh? Awesome movie, but not sure how to take that. A pacifist I am not, that's for sure. In any event, I'm also NOT an expert, but I train hard 5-6 days a week for the most violent situations imaginable - including gun defenses, knife defenses, blunt objects, chokes, multiple attackers, you name it. A proper and effective gun defense involves redirecting the weapon, controlling it, attacking and taking it away. This can be done when the weapon is in your reach, or just outside of it. No wildly swinging chairs for me. There are some very tragic videos out there of people making a stand without controlling the weapon, and subsequently getting killed. Even if you have no training, just make sure you can control the weapon. If you can't, you're probably dead.

 

[AV8R]

Don't take it personally. I truly was reminded of that quote.

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed. Maybe even more than those who resisted and died. Some of us would rather die on our feet than on our knees, I guess.

And thanks for not making me do this:

 

[JiG]

I applaud both men. The first guy could have been terminally ill and had already looked forward to meeting his maker. He may have decided that his "soon to end life" was worth risking in order to save the woman's life. The whole "you never know" game is a two way street.

[quote="guitarded_1":girubkje]Bottom line - do not make a stand against a gun unless you are sure you can get control of it and maintain that control.

Reminds me of this:
[quote="Russell Ziskey":girubkje]I've always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." I don't know what kind of soldier I'm gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.

[/quote:girubkje]

Huh? Awesome movie, but not sure how to take that. A pacifist I am not, that's for sure. In any event, I'm also NOT an expert, but I train hard 5-6 days a week for the most violent situations imaginable - including gun defenses, knife defenses, blunt objects, chokes, multiple attackers, you name it. A proper and effective gun defense involves redirecting the weapon, controlling it, attacking and taking it away. This can be done when the weapon is in your reach, or just outside of it. No wildly swinging chairs for me. There are some very tragic videos out there of people making a stand without controlling the weapon, and subsequently getting killed. Even if you have no training, just make sure you can control the weapon. If you can't, you're probably dead.[/quote:girubkje]
Mall Security eh? :lol: 8) :shattered:

 

[guitarded_1]

Don't take it personally. I truly was reminded of that quote.

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed. Maybe even more than those who resisted and died. Some of us would rather die on our feet than on our knees, I guess.

And thanks for not making me do this:

HA! I think the point is still missed a bit, but that's okay. I'm all about resisting, I'm just saying that if you're going to resist, make sure the gun is redirected and controlled. Having a fighting spirit is what it's all about, but the premise remains - a gun pointed at you can kill you, a gun pointed away from you cannot. Make sure the gun is pointed away. Simple I know, but people tend to forget that when making a stand.

 

[AV8R]

HA! I think the point is still missed a bit, but that's okay. I'm all about resisting, I'm just saying that if you're going to resist, make sure the gun is redirected and controlled. Having a fighting spirit is what it's all about, but the premise remains - a gun pointed at you can kill you, a gun pointed away from you cannot. Make sure the gun is pointed away. Simple I know, but people tend to forget that when making a stand.

And also keep in mind most people aren't trained.

 

[guitarded_1]

HA! I think the point is still missed a bit, but that's okay. I'm all about resisting, I'm just saying that if you're going to resist, make sure the gun is redirected and controlled. Having a fighting spirit is what it's all about, but the premise remains - a gun pointed at you can kill you, a gun pointed away from you cannot. Make sure the gun is pointed away. Simple I know, but people tend to forget that when making a stand.

And also keep in mind most people aren't trained.

Oh I know, believe me. You can actually make a hell of a gun defense with no formal training, but adrenaline does tend to cloud the mind, that's for sure.

 

[CoffeeMate]

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed.

I believe I read somewhere that statistically, fighting back is safer than giving in.
:-k

 

[Rugerer]

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed.

I believe I read somewhere that statistically, fighting back is safer than giving in.
:-k

According to Lott, if you aggregate all the stats, it's safer to give in. This is the source of the repeated claims to give in to the perp's demands.

However, when he broke it down, it showed that a woman resisting with her fists was worse off than a woman giving in, so that's what drags the stats down to the conclusion of "give in".

The safest possible option was resisting with a gun.

[T]he probability of women being seriously injured was almost 4 times greater when resisting without a gun than when resisting with a gun. In other words, the best advice is to resist with a gun, but if no gun is available, it is better to offer no resistance than to fight.

John Lott, More Guns, Less Crime, 3/e, p. 4

 

[JiG]

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed.

I believe I read somewhere that statistically, fighting back is safer than giving in.
:-k

:-k

 

[CoffeeMate]

There are also a lot of people who do not resist at all and get killed.

I believe I read somewhere that statistically, fighting back is safer than giving in.
:-k

:-k

I just can't quite place where it was.
:-k

 

[JiG]

:lol: