Israel "blew apart" nuclear cache in northeastern

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by cdtracing, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. cdtracing

    cdtracing New Member

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    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/12049.htm


    The Sunday Times of London provides additional reporting on the September 6 foray into Syria, further bolstering the growing consensus that Israel "blew apart" or possibly hijacked a nuclear cache, uranium enrichment facilities, or other non-conventional weapons equipment furnished by North Korea.

    The report begins in dramatic action-novel fashion: "It was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria's formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way."

    The Times indicated that an Israeli advance team from a top-secret special forces unit was already in place on the ground. "At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag ["kingfisher"] air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames."

    The Times, citing Israeli sources, said that preparations for the attack had been going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear device from North Korea, apparently for mounting on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.

    "This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel," said an Israeli source, the Times reported. "We've known for a long time that Syria has deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can't live with a nuclear warhead."

    The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river, reportedly Deir az Zor. Israel had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used to extract uranium from phosphates. The Times, citing an "Israeli air force source," reported that the Israeli satellite Ofek 7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria, sending out high-quality images of northeastern Syria every 90 minutes.

    The plan may explain the mixed signals being sent to the Syrians concerning possible war during the summer. Defense minister Ehud Barak had ordered the doubling of Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of air strikes. The Syrian also escalated their preparations, and apparently moved toward Mount Hermon, apparently believing that the Israeli target was on the Golan.

    Barak, reportedly fearing events could spiral out of control, decided to reduce forces on the Golan and the government issued calming statements. Syria then de-escalated. It was then that the IAF struck.

    The Times report said that "only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know -- Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes were given to the Israeli air force attache in Washington to ensure Israel's F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts."

    But what would American F15s being doing in the skies over Syria? The Times report didn't say, but the target sites was about 50 miles from the Iraqi border, seconds in F15 flying time.
    The times reported that in Washington, there was some speculation that the air strikes were actually "a diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel." But most other reporting indicates that the Israeli forces destroyed their target.

    By all accounts, except those of the Syrians, who continue to claim, unconvincingly, that the Israeli strike was an abortive failure, the mission was a clear success. As the Times notes, "Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake" and showed its capability to "penetrate the Syrian air defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian nuclear sites." Certainly it represented an assertion of Israeli air superiority and thus a likely deterrent on Syrian and Iranian aggressive intentions.

    The Sunday Times also reported direct Iranian involvement in the aftemath. "This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new "axis of evil" may have lost one of its spokes."

    However the former US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, told The Jerusalem Post that "simple logic" could lead one to the conclusion that Syria was harboring nuclear material. Bolton suggested North Korea and Iran could have outsourced nuclear development "to a country that is not under suspicion" -- namely Syria. "Why would North Korea protest an Israeli strike on Syria?" he added.

    Explaining why Syria would take the risk of hosting part of a North Korean nuclear program, Bolton spoke of "Iranian compensation."

    "Syria is very aggressive in pursuing WMD capability," he said, noting that such a partnership would indeed be chancy for Syria, but such risks might be considered worthwhile "when you're as aligned as seriously as Syria is with Iran."

    "It's a diversion game - to carry on even when you are supposed to have halted, as in the case of North Korea. And I'd be surprised if Syria would do anything with North Korea without Iranian acquiescence," Bolton continued.
     
  2. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    It's really beginning to feel like we're living in the opening chapters of a Tom Clancy novel...
     

  3. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Is it wrong to actually hope for SHTF? I'm so fed up with things nowadays I'm not far from that point.
     
  4. budder

    budder Moderator Staff Member

    SHTF is more trouble than it's worth. We just need slap a few (thousand) people up on the Hill with the Constitution.
     
  5. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    I was flipping through TV the other day and on CSPAN, Bill Richardson was speaking and he said "I believe in the Constitution". Then, after that, he went on to lay out all these "plans" that were clearly in direct contradiction with what he just said. I just laughed, but then I realized how sad it was. Hitlery was in the background, so I got scared and ran away.
     
  6. cdtracing

    cdtracing New Member

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    I understand what you are saying, I have felt that the terrorists should have hit DC instead of New York. I have even felt that we should get hit again, just to wake up the people of this country. This is a very wrong way of thinking. Even if we get hit again there is a large portion of this country who will whine and moan, blame the US, saying we deserved it and just continue the capitulation the the islamist nut jobs.

    While some of us have preps for the SHTF, we still shouldn't want it in any way. I'm too comfortable with the modern conviences like electricity and running water.

    Chris
     
  7. merlock

    merlock Active Member

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    And more erosion of our rights. :x

    +1
     
  8. wsweeks2

    wsweeks2 New Member

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    You're not kidding. These nut jobs are succeeding in changing our lives because a lot of Americans are too stupid to see what's going on.

    The radical islamists have a loooooooooooooooong term plan to take over the world. Americans are too focused on right here right now to remember what happend 6 years ago.
     
  9. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Could the Israeli attack in Syria also be considered a warning to Iran?

    Just something to think about.

    The Iranian president has said several times that Israel should be destroyed, Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons, Israel has said that it can't tolerate a nuclear Iran.....
     
  10. Thorsen

    Thorsen New Member

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    Iran will never be allowed to be a nuclear state. I don't know how that will be stopped from happening, but if it takes force, force will be used. Who will do the deed if force is used I don't know, it could be the US, Israel or even one of the European countries.
     
  11. cdtracing

    cdtracing New Member

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    The flaw to that is the left wing democrats (& some RINOS) would rather have a nuclear Iran and watch several American go up in a mushroom clouds then to be proactive and put a stop to them before they achieve their nuclear ambitions.

    Although it would be a good idea to allow Isreal to test drive some of our new weapon systems.
     
  12. fallison

    fallison Guest

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    I agree with most of what you are saying but doubt seriously any European country will do anything.
     
  13. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    A common saying in the military is "Prepare for war, Pray for Peace"

    Instruo Pro bellum, Oro Pro Pax.
     
  14. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    "Si Vis Pacem , Para Bellum. If you seek peace, prepare for war"
     
  15. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    France warned the EU to prepare for war if Iran gets nukes.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/17/france.iran.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

    PARIS, France (AP) -- France's foreign minister warned Sunday that the world should prepare for war if Iran obtains nuclear weapons and said European leaders were considering their own economic sanctions against the Islamic country.


    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called for more effective sanctions on Iran.

    Negotiations and two sets of U.N. Security Council sanctions have failed to persuade Iran to stop its uranium enrichment program, a process that can produce fuel for nuclear power plants as well as material used in atomic weapons.

    Iran insists its atomic activities are aimed only at producing energy, but the U.S., its European allies and other world powers suspect Iranian authorities of seeking nuclear weapons.

    Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, speaking on RTL radio, called for "more effective sanctions" against Iran if it continues to resist the demands to suspend uranium enrichment.

    "We will not accept that such a bomb is made. We must prepare ourselves for the worst," he said, specifying that could mean a war. He did not elaborate on what kind of preparations that would entail.

    "We have decided, while negotiations are under way ... to prepare for eventual sanctions outside the United Nations, which would be European sanctions," he said.

    Kouchner was not specific about what penalties Europe might impose, other than to say they could be "economic sanctions regarding financial movements."

    "Our German friends proposed this. We discussed it a few days ago," he said.

    Sarkozy reportedly floated the possibility of European sanctions against Iran this summer. In a major foreign policy speech last month, he mentioned the possibility of an attack on Iran, which he said would be as "catastrophic" as Tehran getting a nuclear bomb.

    In Washington, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the Bush administration is committed, for now, to using diplomatic and economic means to counter the potential nuclear threat from Iran.

    "I think that the administration believes at this point that continuing to try and deal with the Iranian threat, the Iranian challenge, through diplomatic and economic means is by far the preferable approach. That's the one we are using," the Pentagon chief said.

    Meanwhile, Iran's foreign minister was quoted as saying on state television that enriched uranium fuel is ready to be shipped from Russia to Iran's first nuclear power plant.

    The project has been beset by repeated delays due to payment problems on the Iranian side, according to the Russians. Iran, however, maintains it is because Moscow has been caving into Western pressure to halt the project.

    Sunday's announcement comes after talks in Moscow between Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki and Russian nuclear chief Sergei Kiriyenko to address delays in completing the $1 billion Bushehr power plant.

    Iran currently has the ability to enrich small amounts of uranium for nuclear fuel but still nowhere near enough to power a nuclear plant, much less create a weapon. Russian officials say the Bushehr plant cannot open until six months after the current fuel is delivered.
     
  16. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Appearently Iran is upset over France's comments.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/18/france.iran/index.html

    TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's foreign ministry criticized France on Monday for a blunt warning over the weekend that Europe must prepare for war if Tehran continues to flout international demands to stop producing nuclear fuel.


    Iran Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini, shown here in April 2007, criticized France on Monday.

    "We hope that such statements are superficial and do not reflect France's realistic and strategic points of view," Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini said Monday, according to the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency.

    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said in a televised interview Sunday that European nations should consider sanctions outside the U.N. framework if Iran continues to ignore a Security Council call to halt its production of enriched uranium -- and he added, "We must prepare ourselves for the worst."

    Asked what "the worst" meant, Kouchner -- co-founder of the the Nobel Prize-winning relief agency Doctors Without Borders -- replied, "That is war, sir."

    Kouchner quickly added that he does not believe war to be imminent, but that further sanctions are. He said major French companies including those in the energy sector are being told to stop any further investments in Iran.

    Hosseini also said that the use of "convulsive words" ran counter to "the historical, cultural and civilizational dignity and position of France," according to IRNA.

    European Union members Britain, France and Germany have led Western powers in negotiations with Tehran over its nuclear program, which Iranian officials insist is aimed at producing civilian electric power. The United States accuses Iran of working toward a nuclear weapon.

    "At a time when the issue of Iran's peaceful nuclear activities was removed from the agenda of the EU ministerial session recently, Kouchner's claims are not only in contradiction with EU's macro policies on the Islamic Republic of Iran but are also aimed at questioning credibility and competency of the International Atomic Energy Agency," said Hosseini.

    The IAEA, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency, says it has been able to verify that Iran's declared nuclear material has not been diverted from peaceful use. While the IAEA has been unable to verify some "important aspects" regarding the nature and scope of Iran's nuclear work, the agency and Iranian officials agreed on a plan to resolve all outstanding issues, Director-General Mohamed ElBaradei said Monday.

    While France opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, Kouchner's remarks on Iran follow previous hard-line statements by France's new president, Nicolas Sarkozy. In August, the conservative Sarkozy said a nuclear-armed Iran was "not acceptable."

    "I think there is a new France since Sarkozy came to power," Dominique Moisi, an analyst at the French Institute on Foreign Relations, told CNN. "There is a new style of diplomatic content, and obviously there is a new relationship with the U.S. and Washington."

    Meanwhile, the former commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East Gen. John Abizaid said Monday the U.S. and its allies can "live with" a nuclear-armed Iran, but they should continue pressuring the Islamic Republic to keep it from developing an atomic bomb.

    Abizaid, who retired from the Army in March after three years leading U.S. Central Command, told a Washington think tank that Iran's leadership is pursing "reckless" policies and seeks to dominate the Middle East.

    "We need to press the international community as hard as we possibly can, and the Iranians, to cease and desist on the development of a nuclear weapon, and we should not preclude any option that we may have to deal with it," he said.

    But he added, "I believe the United States, with our great military power, can contain Iran."

    "Let's face it -- we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we've lived with a nuclear China, and we're living with nuclear powers as well," he told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

    "Clearly the development of a bomb in Iranian hands will cause other nations in the region to move in a like direction, and in a very unstable region like that, that is not good news," Abizaid said.

    But he said the United States "can deliver clear messages to the Iranians that makes it clear to them that while they may develop one or two nuclear weapons, they'll never be able to compete with us in our true military might and power."
     
  17. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/02/iran.nuclear.ap/index.html


    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran has reached its long-sought goal of running 3,000 centrifuges to enrich uranium for its nuclear program, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad announced Sunday in a report on state media.

    The U.N. Security Council had threatened a third round of sanctions against the country if it did not freeze the uranium enrichment program -- which Iran maintains is for peaceful energy purposes, but the U.S. says is to hide a weapons program.

    "The West thought the Iranian nation would give in after just a resolution, but now we have taken another step in the nuclear progress and launched more than 3,000 centrifuge machines, installing a new cascade every week," the state television Web site quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

    Still, Ahmadinejad's comments seemed at odds with independent assessments of the status of his country's enrichment program.

    As recently as Thursday, a report drawn up by International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei, put the number of centrifuges enriching uranium at closer to 2,000 at its vast underground hall at Natanz.

    The 2,000 figure is an increase of a few hundred of the machines over May, when the IAEA last reported on Iran. Still the rate of expansion is much slower than a few months ago, when Tehran was assembling close to 200 centrifuges every two weeks.

    As well, Iran continued to produce only negligible amounts of nuclear fuel with its centrifuges, far below the level usable for nuclear warheads, the report said.

    "They have the knowledge to proceed much more quickly," said a U.N. official.

    While Iran has denied stalling, the official and others suggested it could have decided to proceed at a slower pace as it increases its cooperation with agency investigators looking at past suspicious activities so as to reduce any sentiment to impose new U.N. sanctions.

    Former U.N. nuclear inspector David Albright and Jacqueline Shire of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security said the slowdown could be a combination of both "technical difficulties" and "political considerations."


    "Iran likely has managed to learn how to operate individual centrifuges and cascades adequately. However, it still may be struggling to operate a large number of cascades at the same time in parallel," they wrote in a report e-mailed to The Associated Press.

    "In addition, Iran's leadership may have decided to slow work to overcome technical problems in order to forestall negative reactions that would lend support for further sanctions by the UN Security Council."
     
  18. wsweeks2

    wsweeks2 New Member

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    :rotfl2:
     
  19. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    I got a chuckle out of that too.
     
  20. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    I blow my nose at you, silly Englishman!

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