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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't posted anything here in a long time, but I just came from the gas station and had an interesting encounter I want to share and get some feedback about what others think about it. I was standing there pumping my gas and a truck pulled up to the pump across from me. This guy gets out and is open carrying a pistol on his hip in a holster that was canted completely 90 degrees from vertical so the barrel was completely parallel with the ground with the grip facing up. As he starts to pump his gas I look over and I am staring straight down his barrel from about 15 feet. I walked over to him, shook his hand, and said "nice holster, except I was a little unnerved because I was staring right down your barrel". He just giggled and the was the end of it. After I pumped my gas I walked over to him again, lifted my shirt, and said "I like to keep my barrel pointed down so I don't sweep people". He seemed to take offense to that statement because he acted offended and said "you're not on the dirt are you"? I just walked away knowing that an educational moment wasn't happening. Here are some things I'm curious how others feel.

Have any of you ever carried in that style of carry before? I know shoulder carry can be parallel to the ground, but that's usually covered by a jacket or something so you're not aware of it? This was pointed RIGHT AT ME!

Would you have been unnerved looking down the barrel of a presumed loaded gun even though he never had his hands on the gun?

Would you feel comfortable sweeping people with your gun every time you moved even you weren't touching it? I've always been taught you don't sweep ANYONE with a gun under ANY circumstances.
 

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If it's in a secure holster then I'm not too concerned. Key word secure. I've been behind people with shoulder holsters before and it didn't bother me.

Once a firearm is being actively handled then the four safety rules apply. Always.
 

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Seasteading Aficionado
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I completely understand not wanting to get swept by the muzzle of a weapon, but if it's a quality retention holster the chance of having the gun going off is very low, I mean if not I'm sure one day and my retention holster would have made my gun go gone off and shot the ground or my leg or something but be that as it may it's just not very likely.

Some shoulder holsters also can sweep people as well.
 

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i'm trying to picture what you're saying. you said the grip was facing up? like the gun was upside down? i'm just curious how one would draw that. also, what does "on the dirt" mean? in any case, like the others, i don't much care unless it's an old-school gun in a crappy holster, or in the guys hand.
 

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Atlanta Overwatch
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It sounds like he was using a small of the back holster. They are nearly horizontal to facilitate a smooth draw stroke.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Seems lower back area for the holster as noted above.

As far as "on the dirt" I interpret that to mean flat on the ground with an extra hole or 2 in your skin wrapper.

Nemo
 

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"on the dirt"...I took it to imply that perhaps his job, work, personal activities may require him to be on his belly a lot. I'm thinking as in a tight crawl space under a house or something like that.

I too would feel uncomfortable being swept by the barrel. Heck, I find it unnerving at best and rude at least to have that done at a gun show let alone the range or a gas station. But I think he's on his stomach a lot and then that carry method would make a lot of sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for some other views on this. When he said "you're not on the dirt are you" he definitely meant why was I pointing out the fact that I had a gun pointed at me when I'm still standing and not shot. To me that wasn't the point. The point was he wasn't even aware or cognizant of the fact he was openly sweeping everyone in his vicinity. If I had titled this thread "Just stared down the barrel of a stranger's gun" it would have sounded more ominous. I was pointing out to him the fact his gun was pointed right at me and he was pointing out the fact to me that I hadn't been shot. That to me is the equivalent of someone sweeping you with an unloaded gun and saying "it's not loaded". To me it was a violation of universal rule #2 - Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
If it's in a secure holster then I'm not too concerned. Key word secure. I've been behind people with shoulder holsters before and it didn't bother me.

Once a firearm is being actively handled then the four safety rules apply. Always.
I can completely understand this. I actually started to second guess myself for making an issue of it because of this, but I wanted him to be at least aware of what he was doing.
 

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My thoughts are is its secured in a holster, it's not 'sweeping' anyone or anything.

It's also not 'pointing' at you if there isn't a hand on the grip.
 

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This guy gets out and is open carrying a pistol on his hip in a holster that was canted completely 90 degrees from vertical so the barrel was completely parallel with the ground with the grip facing up...

Would you have been unnerved looking down the barrel of a presumed loaded gun even though he never had his hands on the gun?
As long as the holster and gun are secured. Fine

Folks who wear horizontal shoulder holsters (which I did for years) are always being swept.

SOB holsters that are horizontal are also quite common.
 

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i'm trying to picture what you're saying. you said the grip was facing up? like the gun was upside down? i'm just curious how one would draw that.
One like this:
 

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Atlanta Overwatch
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i'm trying to picture what you're saying. you said the grip was facing up? like the gun was upside down? i'm just curious how one would draw that.
Very easily if worn correctly. The holster is designed to be carried at 6:00 in the small of your back.
 

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gotcha. i thought OP said it was on his hip.
 

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Atlanta Overwatch
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He did say it was on his hip, but the way he describes it, it sounds like a SOB holster.

I have no idea why someone would wear that style on their hip.
 

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Sounds like you where being way to sensitive and the second time you approached him you most likely came off as very condescending. Who would take advice from anyone like that, and why would he even feel like he needs to take your advice anyways? I agree it dosent seem like the best way to carry but I doubt anyone open carrying really gives a damn what anyone thinks about their carry method.

I would be bothered by someone going out of their way to bring attention to their own firearm to make a point about what I am doing.
 

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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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Cooper's second rule of gun safety is that you don't let the muzzle of your weapon point to anything you're not willing to put a bullet into right then and there.
The rule has no exception for holstered guns being carried or worn.
Is there an implied exception, out of common sense and necessity?
I think so, but it's a limited exception. THe right kind of gun. The right kind of holster. The right kind of gun owner.
I'd have no problem with a guy carrying a Double-Action (decocked) pistol in a quality horizontal shoulder holster walking in front of me, even though I may be looking down his bore and seeing the glimmer of the Gold Dot hollow-points aimed at my face.
Some random yahoo at a gas station wearing a cheap nylon strong-side belt holster made for AirSoft guns, that he bought at WalMart for $11.87, and his gun's weight has tipped the holster forward to the point that his barrel is aiming at my nuts? Not cool.
 

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I pocket carry all the time. When I am seated, the muzzle of the gun often is pointed at a co-worker, especially if we are facing each other and talking one-on-one. In my mind this is no different than an OC holster with the gun pointed at someone, just nobody can see the muzzle. Jeff Cooper's rules are about firearm handling. Holstered firearms are, by definition, not being handled. So a modern handgun in a proper holster that the owner isn't "fiddling with" is fine, even if the muzzle sweeps me from time to time.
 

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I encountered something similar to this at the range the other day. I had my ar in a case on the bench behind me. The guy shooting next to me asked me to turn the case in the opposite direction. When he saw the look on my face he said he wasn't comfortable with my rifle aimed in his direction. I started to argue the point with him, but realized it wasn't worth it. Plus, for all he knew, that rifle could have been loaded with the safety off, with a 2 lbs. home trigger job that was one bump away from firing.
 

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I encountered something similar to this at the range the other day. I had my ar in a case on the bench behind me. The guy shooting next to me asked me to turn the case in the opposite direction. When he saw the look on my face he said he wasn't comfortable with my rifle aimed in his direction. I started to argue the point with him, but realized it wasn't worth it. Plus, for all he knew, that rifle could have been loaded with the safety off, with a 2 lbs. home trigger job that was one bump away from firing.
i HATE public gun ranges at this point. they tend to turn a potentially relaxing and fun day into frustration and disdain at the human species. taking buddies to a gravel pit or other spot out in the boonies is always much better.
 
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