Interesting conversation with LEO friend

Discussion in 'GA Laws and Politics' started by kaizer, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. kaizer

    kaizer New Member

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    I had a really interesting conversation with a buddy of mine tonight who is a leo up here in N.GA. We had been at the range shooting and on the way home got into a nice conversation about civilian carry.

    Let me first say that I carry around him often, and he knows it. We talk guns, carry rigs, etc. I even put him onto looking at Southern Holsters. He is an awesome guy. Worked for the Athens P.D. at one point before moving out to this side of town.

    We got into a conversation about the law and public gatherings and he told me that one of his superiors told him that the GFL wasn't worth the paper that it is written on. We talked about this, and apparently his boss' opinion is that because the language is so vague in GA law concerning the public gathering, he feels that there really isn't any place that a civilian with a GFL can carry 100 percent legally. I pulled out my GFL and he and I took a look at that stupid law and honestly as most of us believe, the law absolutely blows. It is rediculous.

    The next part of our conversation really surprised me. He asked me what the difference between the GFL that I had and a concealed carry permit was. This blew my mind, so I explained the GFL to him and explained that it also allowed me to open carry legally. I never thought I would be explaining this to an LEO, who was sitting in my car after we had spent the afternoon shooting. He is a good cop and a good guy but nobody had ever taken the time to train him properly on this fact.

    All in all, I opened his eyes today and hopefully he will share this with his fellow officers.
     
  2. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    A lot of cops just don't know the ins and outs of Georgia's firearms laws. Part of it is ignorance but the biggest part is that we (toters) just aren't exposed to law enforcement very often. We're not the ones doing drive-bys or mugging/shooting people. We don't cause problems. I bet most cops only encounter 3 or 4 people carrying legally every year. Maybe some more than others.

    I'm sure they know the laws to a T for drunk driving, domestics and stuff like that but I seriously doubt they deal with Georgias open carry laws on a daily basis. Hopefully, a call to a supervisor would clear it up if they were unsure.
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Kaizer, did you point him to this site's Georgia Firearm Case Law page and the State v. Burns case in particular?
     
  4. Hawkdriver

    Hawkdriver Member

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    The Officers to whom I spoke knew only about GFL and carry laws information as far as the cheat sheets they carried.

    When I was researching exemptions and Active duty military I talked to some Officers, and they had never read 16-11-130 and the full exemptions within to include being exempt from alot of the prohibited areas.

    I carry the code in my pocket.
     
  5. gsusnake

    gsusnake Token Liberal Hippie

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    As do I.

    Mine is highlighted and annotated, and also includes a copy of the relevant language from State v. Burns.
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that is a good idea.
     
  7. kaizer

    kaizer New Member

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    I did and I also told him to check out GCO for some more information about what is going on and what people are trying to do. He said he would check it out.
     
  8. oxfat

    oxfat New Member

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    Reading State v Burns, it discusses a place where people are or will be gathered, and not just a public place where people may gather.

    Reading this in light of a mall, people may gather there. At times, people are or will be gathered for the purposes of an event. So if there is not an event either ongoing or at some time in the near future, you should be able to carry.

    Taking this a step further, I know that there are times at my church when people will not be gathered. Specifically, I am there at times to mow the lawn, and I am about the only person there. So, people may gather there, however there are no gatherings there at that time, or scheduled for the near future.

    Other than the fact that churches are named in 16-11-127 and malls are not, I would think that the same rules would apply. Somehow though I doubt that it would be seen in this light by LEOs and judges. . .
     
  9. Hawkdriver

    Hawkdriver Member

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    By profession I dig into regulations. I am not a lawyer or anything, but if you sat around the pilots hooch while we talked about regs you would think we all were :D.

    I will admit to having reservations in my own research however. Sometimes I know what one regulation is and what it means, but sometimes there is another regulation somewhere that has bearing on the regulation I just read. (losing anyone yet?)

    By that I mean, I know what the 16 codes for firearms are and I know what 16-11-130 states. What I don't know if I somehow missed another obscure code I havent seen.

    The only real thing that reassures me is the interpretation of the law by the AJ in U97-13 along with the fact I read english and understand what 16-11-130 states in English.

    My only other saving grace might be the fact that I dont plan on violating any laws or creating a situation where I might draw the attention of Law enforcement for the most part. The few I have had contact with here local have been very professional and I while I don't have full confidence, I do hope they would take a good look at the code before shackleing me up and taking me in.

    In all the prohibited areas honestly only parks and resturants that serve alcohol for consumption bother me. Especially since I don't drink really anymore. One good thing, if I looked at the link correctly, Richmond Hill allows carry in thier parks.


    Am I missing any of that obscure code?
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, as you say, churches are specifically listed as constituting public gatherings. The point of State v. Burns was to decide what places in addition to the six places listed are also off limits. Does it include McDonald's, where Burns was arrested? What else does the public gathering law include?

    The answer is:

    . . . it appears from reading subsection (b) and giving the words their ordinary meaning that the statute should apply, in addition to the situations described therein, when people are gathered or will be gathered for a particular function and not when a weapon is carried lawfully to a public place, where people may gather.

    http://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/statevburns.htm
     
  11. Herbie

    Herbie New Member

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    What about making a page here or on the Main page that is formated to be printed and that way we can point to that and new members can easily have access to this sort of thing? Just a thought.
     
  12. gsusnake

    gsusnake Token Liberal Hippie

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    http://www.georgiapacking.org/law.php
     
  13. oxfat

    oxfat New Member

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    MP,

    One interesting point in State v. Burns is its reference to Jordan v. State. In Jordan v State it says:

    "Carrying a pistol without a license and carrying a concealed weapon are separate offenses even though they grow out of the same offense. "

    That is a strong case for open carry.
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    A strong case for whom? People without firearms licenses?
     
  15. oxfat

    oxfat New Member

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    I think it is clear that "Carrying a pistol without a license", means you need a license. What I meant (and probably didn't state clearly enough) is that there are two statements there:

    1. Carrying a pistol without a license
    2. Carrying a concealed weapon

    Since statement #2 refers to concealed carry, and it makes #1 and #2 separate offenses, then you can make the case that #1 must refer to open carry.
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, as in Jordan v. State, the case you cited, you can be charged with both if the firearm is concealed. If carried openly, then you can only be charged with #1.
     
  17. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    It's two different code sections.
     
  18. oxfat

    oxfat New Member

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    However if you have a license, I'd say you're good in either case. That is, open or concealed. Or do I misunderstand the statement?
     
  19. oxfat

    oxfat New Member

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    I agree, however in this instance the judge links the two together.
     
  20. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    You do not misunderstand.