Your understanding of the law in this regard is correct.
In the state of Georgia, Is it actually a crime to carry in a posted no carry "zone"?
In the state of Georgia, best I understand up until a staff member or owner of the business/property asks that you leave, if you're conceal or open carrying in a place of business with a posted no carry placard it's not a crime. If you refuse to leave and don't leave immediately it is then criminal trespassing. Can anyone definitively state if that's true and accurate one way or the other?
I don't make it a practice to spend my money at any such business but when I'm in a larger city I sometimes (rarely unless in ATL) but sometimes see these signs posted at say a gas station, well unless another station is right across the street or something 9 times out of 10, it's concealed and people are typically oblivious so I ignore it go about my business purchase what I went in to purchase and leave. Listening to a defense attorney in Ohio though in their state it's actually a crime the second you walk through the door. A very minor one, but one none the less.
I'm currently under the impression that in the state of GA it's not unless they ask you leave and you don't do so immediately and then it's criminal trespassing. Is that accurate for GA or no? And if not can anyone give factual comment on what you're actually guilty of if anything?
I don't make it a practice to spend my money at any such business but when I'm in a larger city I sometimes (rarely unless in ATL) but sometimes see these signs posted at say a gas station, well unless another station is right across the street or something 9 times out of 10, it's concealed and people are typically oblivious so I ignore it go about my business purchase what I went in to purchase and leave. Listening to a defense attorney in Ohio though in their state it's actually a crime the second you walk through the door. A very minor one, but one none the less.
I'm currently under the impression that in the state of GA it's not unless they ask you leave and you don't do so immediately and then it's criminal trespassing. Is that accurate for GA or no? And if not can anyone give factual comment on what you're actually guilty of if anything?
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Unlike many other states, the law in GA does not spell out any sort of crime and punishment involved regarding signs about carrying weapons. The crime of trespassing turns around on whether you received "notice" that you were not welcome. So, my personal opinion is that if you be all "Yeah, I saw that sign. Nyah! It carries no legal weight!" you are treading on thin legal ice.
From the EF Hutton of this board:
From the EF Hutton of this board:
The key phrase is "based only on a sign"I agree that it is an oversimplification to say that signs carry "no legal weight." That said, I also agree that the element of notice based only on a sign is problematic for a prosecution.
(Quotes from previous discussions, which link to their threads.)Is a sign notice? Did the person see it? Did the person knowingly ignore it? Is a "No Firearms" sign prohibiting entry? The owner providing notice is not the same thing as a person receiving notice.
I've had people in front of me hold the door open for us as we enter. Only upon leaving did I notice any sign. How is that "notice"?From the EF Hutton of this board:
jrm said: ↑
I agree that it is an oversimplification to say that signs carry "no legal weight." That said, I also agree that the element of notice based only on a sign is problematic for a prosecution.
Common sense says signs are only obeyed by legal patrons and are ignored by those with criminal intent, therefore, signs are part of the anti-gun campaigns and have nothing to do with safety or crime prevention. Turning otherwise law abiding people (licensed carriers) into criminals via signs is simply vengeance for political beliefs. Fortunately, our legislature, for the most part, is not party to this.
I suspect courts would be reluctant to find “notice” that A PERSON MUST NOT ENTER the property when the sign doesn’t say anything about people entering or remaining, but only forbids a certain tool or an activity (carrying the tool).
A sign that said “PERSONS IN POSSESSION OF FIREARMS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY. Entry is Criminal Trespassing”
might have a better chance of being seen as legally sufficiently notice.
A sign that said “PERSONS IN POSSESSION OF FIREARMS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY. Entry is Criminal Trespassing”
might have a better chance of being seen as legally sufficiently notice.
Many times those "no firearms" signs are buried in the mass of other signs indicting store hours, no smoking allowed, what credit cards are accepted, etc. How many of us really pay any attention to that? Did we really receive notice?Rugerer said: ↑
Is a sign notice? Did the person see it? Did the person knowingly ignore it? Is a "No Firearms" sign prohibiting entry? The owner providing notice is not the same thing as a person receiving notice.
Is that wording Law or what it could be. Does the business owner have the authority to make it Criminal Trespassing on his own or does the State mandate the wording?I suspect courts would be reluctant to find "notice" that A PERSON MUST NOT ENTER the property when the sign doesn't say anything about people entering or remaining, but only forbids a certain tool or an activity (carrying the tool).
A sign that said "PERSONS IN POSSESSION OF FIREARMS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY. Entry is Criminal Trespassing"
might have a better chance of being seen as legally sufficiently notice.
Or is the whole mess up to the good Graces of whatever Judge one would stand before.
"receiving notice" is not defined. However, looking you in the eye and stating "Leave!" would most assuredly constitute notice.Is that wording Law or what it could be. Does the business owner have the authority to make it Criminal Trespassing on his own or does the State mandate the wording?
Or is the whole mess up to the good Graces of whatever Judge one would stand before.
"O.C.G.A. 16-7-21. Criminal trespass
(3) Remains upon the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant to depart."
And I suspect that a 4'x8' sign with GS's wording placed so you had to walk around it would as well. Hence JRM's comment about signage.
Well, when the jury hears this case, just ask them how many times they have pulled on a business door when a prominent sign clearly said "push" or yanked on a locked business door when closed but the hours of operation were clearly posted on the door.
Except when a private business happens to be a school, church, college, technical school, nuclear power plant, prison, polling place, or location rented as a court room. In such cases, signs are not required to make carrying a crime but they are nice notices that carrying in such a location is a actually violation of law.
It all depends on where you saw it.
Nemo
Nemo
You never have to obey Internet signs!
Online, you can wear as little as you like, and walk barefooted over more broken glass than Annie Lenox ever did.
I took my picture in real life and then posted it here.
Online, you can wear as little as you like, and walk barefooted over more broken glass than Annie Lenox ever did.
I took my picture in real life and then posted it here.
I promise I will never put a firearm on that sign. I'll even be nice enough to never put one on that wall either.
Does it carry the force of law?
I think (I've heard- never researched the issue) that some State agency or Board has a rule that all facilities like this must ban weapons .
Even private businesses of this type.
What kind of business, you ask?
A nursing home. Private property, but subject to a ton of rules and restrictions by the State as a condition of getting and keeping their license and their ability to participate in various government aid programs.
FWIW, I think the General Assembly has stripped all State, county, and city boards and commissions from having any rules about gun possession.
They have had their authority to address that issue preempted.
But they probably don’t know it, and wouldn’t admit it anyway, until somebody like GeorgiaCarry.org pushes the issue and sues over it, with the right kind of plaintiff that has “standing.”
They have had their authority to address that issue preempted.
But they probably don’t know it, and wouldn’t admit it anyway, until somebody like GeorgiaCarry.org pushes the issue and sues over it, with the right kind of plaintiff that has “standing.”
A posted "No Firearms" sign probably carries just as much legal weight as a posted "No GA Tech Fans".
Where the sign itself doesn't change the legality of carrying there, it might warn you that the place is legally defined as a no gun zone.
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