Importance of SSN?

Discussion in 'General GWL Questions' started by flyin929, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. flyin929

    flyin929 New Member

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    Why is protecting your SSN so important?
    It's pretty much on every document dealing with any important financial transaction dealing in our lives and accessible to a wide variety of people.
    It's not that hard to get. And a lot of people are out there right now with fake SSN's.
    My question is not meant to downplay the Privacy Issue but rather to garner an understanding.
    I went to the Probate Court the other day to get my Carry permit and although the Court did not ask for my SSN, the Sheriff did. Along with employment information.
    We have so many numbers attached to us and at a certain point they all lead back to our SSN.
    Looking forward to the feedback.
    Thanks, Bob
     
  2. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    My wife works for a credit bureau. Someone can cause ALOT of trouble for you with your SSN.

    A friend had a credit rating of 805 until two years ago, when someone stole his SSN and took out credit in his name. After two years of fighting his rating is still at 475, beacause of the all the bad debt that the criminal ran up.

    Using SSNs for GFL applications is also defacto gun registration.
     

  3. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    If someone who wanted to got their hands on the applications with names, SSNs, and addresses they could easily steal identities and have cause ALOT of issues for alot of people.
     
  4. flyin929

    flyin929 New Member

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    It's already out there. (your SSN) And it is causing a lot of trouble for a lot of people (my parents included) My question although I may have phrased it poorly, is how does it detract from your right to carry?
    I have to believe that there is a database of Firearm owners, although it may be a bit roundabout. They've got fingerprints, Driver License numbers. addresses, phone numbers...etc.
    We're all on a DBase somewhere.
    I wanted to know all that I needed to know prior to getting my Carry Permit and read through the various forums here extensively so that I would be prepared when I was able to get down and fill out my paperwork.
    I got through the process with relative ease but I am left with the nagging question of why the withholding of a SSN is an issue.
    Don't get me wrong... I hate handing over unnecessary info, like when you get your hair cut and they want your freakin phone number or address, I tell them..." I'm just here for a haircut, I'm not going to give you all of my information"
    As I stated before, when I got to the Sheriff's office I was asked for my SSN as well as employment info. And due to having taken an advanced course in a 'Respecting authority through physical attitude adjustment therapy' when I was much younger, I complied. (some things you just don't forget)
    Bob
     
  5. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    While all that info is out there, you don't want to make it easy for them to compile that data. Databases use unique identifiers to hold various information about a single topic. Your SSN is a unique identifier just like your fingerprints.

    So if I am Big Government and compiling information on people to put in a big database, I get all the info from place1 and add those people to the database. Then I get all the info from place2 and before I add them all I see if any match. If there is a match I don't want to create a new file, just add that information to the existing file on that person. On and on it goes.

    Now as an everyday citizen I may sign up to place1 using my full name and current physical address and sign up to place2 using my nickname/middle name and a PO Box. In the Big G database there would be no match and treat it as more than one person. However, if included with that information was my SSN for place1 and place2. Now they know it is me by my unique ID number and it is much easier for them to keep track of me.

    Your name and address may change, but your SSN is the same. The fewer places you use it, the harder it is to compile all that information. While I don't mind my SSN on some things, where guns are concerned I want to make compiling that information as difficult as I can.

    Besides, it is not needed. Social Secutiy is about financial information. What does financial information have to do with whether or not you fall under an exception for issuing a firearms license?
     
  6. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    Forgetting persec issues for a moment...

    Asking for SSN and employment info violates state and federal laws. It's that simple.

    They want us to follow the law, they should do the same.

    Is that too much to ask?
     
  7. NTA

    NTA Well-Known Member

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    Several laws prevent the Feds and States from compiling and storing certain kinds of data on you. They get around it with a subscription to Choicepoint (Alpharetta, GA), a company which does it all for them.

    Of course you remember the problem a few years ago when organized crime groups subscribed to Choicepoint. Just a minor cost of doing business for them.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Let me ask you a question. If we are to allow the probate judges and the Sheriff to violate federal law and require something from you that that is not necessary, then what is to stop them from adding one more (like employment info). If we let them add that one more, so that they are now requiring two unecessary things from you, then what is to stop them from adding one more? And another . . .

    If the government officials will not follow the law as written, then does it matter if you get favorable changes to the way the law is written? If they can ignore the first, why not ignore the second?

    I hope you told the Sheriff "No."
     
  9. SigP229

    SigP229 Active Member

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    MP, I've seen where GCO sued the probate judge for SSN issues but never seen anything with the Sheriff. Has this come up before? How was it resolved?
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    It has come up before, but no lawsuits have been necessary. Believe it or not, GCO does not like filing lawsuits, and it is seen as an avenue of last resort.

    The first resort resides with vigilant GCO members who know their rights. Then GCO with persuasive arguments. Lawsuits are reserved for the recalcitrant.
     
  11. SigP229

    SigP229 Active Member

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    Thanks.
    So legally they suppose to process your fingerprints without your SSN.
     
  12. lsu_nonleg

    lsu_nonleg New Member

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    You can cancel a credit card and move a bank account. You can do nothing with your SSN. You are not permitted to find out if someone else is working with your SSN, even.

    I work in the privacy and identity theft field; it's not the large banks you have to worry about, at least there's some recourse with them. (Yay, credit monitoring does... nothing.) However, you have -0- recourse against government misusing it, and those mom and pop joints that check your credit and leave your entire file sitting in a shoebox on site... ugh.

    There is a massive loophole in the Privacy act of 74 and subsequent privacy legislation, at least at the federal level. It's called "law enforcement purposes." The sheriff of Dekalb could hand out your social security number on business cards on the street, and there's nothing you can do except whine to the AJC. Let's all remember, any agency, and almost any purpose, can be classified as "law enforcement purposes."
     
  13. Axeman

    Axeman New Member

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    Dang MP I had to look that one up. That was a $10 word.

     
  14. FireStar

    FireStar Guest

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    For a number of reasons, some of them personal:

    1. On principle alone, because, as other have said, it's the law. If I have to obey it, the government should too.

    2. Because the shoebox thing happens more often than you think. A lot of the people who collect your ssn don't protect it like they should. It always floors me when people assure me "we are the only ones who will see it". I guess their "no criminals allowed" sign on the door works like a charm at keeping the baddies away.

    3. Because a lot of the people who ask for it don't need it for the business they're conducting. They just want it as a convenient unique identifier. I actually had a health club ask for my ssn once. :?:

    4. It's no one's business. I am a very private person, and the less people know about me the better. I don't give out my (real) phone number when clerks ask for it, and I was reluctant to give GCO my email address when I signed up. To his credit, the guy(s) at the booth didn't say one word.

    5. (this is sort of off-topic) I don't even like giving out partial ssn info. Some companies ask for birthday, mother's maiden name, then last 4 of your ssn, for identification purposes. If it isn't happening already, it won't be long before criminals will overhear "January 1st, 1960 ... Smith ... 1234" and know exactly what those three pieces of info are, and then they'll have the key to many of your accounts.

    6. Because my ssn card says "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" and I think that should still be honored today.

    If you give me a few minutes I can probably think of some more.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Let me know who he is so that I can beat him about the head and shoulders. Email is the main way we contact people, and it is very difficult otherwise. The people without email are probably wondering if GCO is actually doing anything . . .
     
  16. FireStar

    FireStar Guest

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    :D I don't know his name, but I could pick him out of a lineup. No need for a beating, though ... I only said I was reluctant to give it. I caved in the end.
     
  17. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I know, but I want it pushed. I think people would give it more easily if they knew that was our main way of keeping them informed. And we don't sell it.
     
  18. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    We do now, I put that on the application.
     
  19. flyin929

    flyin929 New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. I have my own opinions with regards to SSN's but it's always beneficial to hear what others have to say so that I may better understand an issue.

    I just noticed another thread quite similar to mine and I was wondering if it would be possible to to have a FAQ in the forum.
     
  20. S&W 40

    S&W 40 Active Member

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    http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa ... _topview=1

    So generally if it is required by law they must inform you of the law and the privacy statement must be there, if not required by law they must inform how it will be used and then it is volitary if you provide it.