[Malum Prohibitum]

According to the pro-Second Amendment Gun Owners of America, the legislation also makes it easier to target gun dealers for prosecution. Even gun clubs could find themselves targeted under this immigration reform legislation

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul389.html

 

[Tinkerhell]

Since they are trying to bring that piece of trash they call an immigration reform bill back to the Senate for some kind of special vote (only minor ammendments can be propsed & limited amount of discussion time before the vote is going to be called?? I can't find the specifics on what this is or how it works...) I just sent off letters to my Senators and my Representative (just to be sure he knows what his peons, I mean, his constituents want also).

Have you done this yet?
:?:

 

[ber950]

Our two Senators are backing away from this bill now. I think the pressure from home is getting too high.

 

[Purge]

I got 3 emails and 2 letters from Sham-bliss and he keeps telling me over and over and over again, it's not amnesty, it's not amnesty, It's Not Amnesty, IT'S NOT AMNESTY... Liar :x

Oh, by the way he is also speeking for Isakson in the emails. Keep the pressure on.

 

[shamalama]

Georgia is the newest fight in the Amnesty Circus, with the state's Senators considered premier prizes, both who appeared to back the Senate's immigration bill before distancing themselves in the face of voter opposition. But even as they try to increase the gap, the Bush administration and Georgia businesses are trying to rope them back in, telling them the state's economy needs the workers.

B.S.

Phil Kent, a Republican activist from Georgia and spokesman for several national groups opposing the bill, said the two senators have heard their voters. "They'd be making a serious mistake with the electorate in Georgia if they vote for this amnesty bill," he said, adding that a political action committee has vowed to help either a Republican primary challenger or Democratic general election challenger to Republicans who vote for the bill.

Below is my SECOND attempt to convince my Senators to vote against the current Amnesty Bill:

=====

According to U.S. Border Control (www.usbc.org), which has done exhaustive research, it’s 20 million illegal aliens, not 12 million.

And, it appears that this bill would allow these 20 million to bring in their immediate family members - parents, children, brothers and sisters, and, of course, a spouse. This means that, at a bare minimum, it is necessary to multiply the 20 million figure by seven, eight or more.

The truth is that this legislation is opening the door to 200 million people, the vast majority of whom are uneducated, unskilled, non-English speakers, with no love or loyalty for the United States.

Our entire population is only 300 million! What is the Senate thinking?

Why isn’t this true number being used in the debates? Why would anybody wish to import a huge, permanent underclass of uneducated, unskilled people when our government seems incapable of helping Americans who are stuck at the bottom rung of the opportunity ladder?

A senior citizens’ group issued a study estimating more than 2 million illegal immigrants could gain nearly $1 trillion in Social Security benefits by 2040 if the bill becomes law. They're unequivocally certain that it’s going to have a devastating effect on the solvency of Social Security, which is already estimated to go bankrupt in 2041.

We voters are asking one, and only one, thing: secure the borders. We don't want anything "comprehensive" because we’ve got no faith that you’ll actually enforce the current laws, much less some new laws. We have never asked for any comprehensive reform; this is a subject brewed and concocted in Washington.

Once you've proven to us that you're more interested in securing the borders than you are trying to bribe 20 million new voters then we voters will start having more faith.

When you're not looking after the interests of current American voters we can't help but wonder who you are looking after in Washington.

=====

 

[luke0927]

My last letter from them.....

Dear Mr. Martin :

As the debate on immigration reform continues, I would like to update you on the latest actions. You may have already had a chance to see this, but below is a recent letter Senator Isakson and I sent to President Bush.

If you would like to receive timely email alerts regarding the latest congressional actions and my weekly e-newsletter, please sign up via my web site at: www.chambliss.senate.gov . Please do not hesitate to be in touch if I may ever be of assistance.

Dear Mr. President:

Although the Senate's effort to reform our nation's immigration laws through the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 is stalled, illegal immigration remains our nation's number one domestic issue. We therefore believe it is incumbent upon us and our colleagues to tackle this issue and not leave this problem for future generations to solve.

As we travel around Georgia and continue to hear from our constituents, the message from a majority of Georgians is that they have no trust that the United States Government will enforce the laws contained in this new legislation and secure the border first. This lack of trust is rooted in the mistakes made in 1986 and the continued chaos surrounding our immigration laws. Understandably, the lack of credibility the federal government has on this issue gives merit to the skepticism of many about future immigration reform.

We believe the way to build greater support for immigration reform in the United States Senate and among the American public is to regain the trust in the ability of the federal government to responsibly administer immigration programs and enforce immigration laws. There is bipartisan agreement that we need to secure our borders first, and we believe this approach will serve as a platform towards addressing the other issues surrounding immigration reform.

To that end, we believe that you and your administration could alleviate many of the fears of our constituents by calling for an emergency supplemental bill to fully fund the border and interior security initiatives contained in legislation currently pending in the Senate, as well as any outstanding existing authorizations. Such a move would show your commitment to securing the border first and to stopping the flow of illegal immigrants and drugs into our nation. It will also work towards restoring the credibility of the federal government on this critical issue.

We urge you to carefully consider this request, and thank you for the opportunity to express the views of the people of Georgia on this matter.

Sincerely,

Saxby Chambliss
Johnny Isakson

 

[Tinkerhell]

by calling for an emergency supplemental bill to fully fund the border and interior security initiatives contained in legislation currently pending in the Senate, as well as any outstanding existing authorizations.

This bit bothers me a little, but on the whole the letter looks good & sounds like maybe these guys get that we don't want anything new, just enforce what's already on the books.

 

[Mobster989]

Actually SS will be bankrupt by 2018 at the current estimates. 2042 is the estimate of when the IOUs the government has been putting into the SS piggy bank will run out. But guess what, those IOUs are government IOUs, meaning that the tax payers will be the ones paying them off. So after 2018 the tax payers will be paying increased taxes to get rid of IOUs that the government incurred by taking from the people. Good game.

We can't build a wall? I say we recall those 160,000 troops in Iraq and secure our border before we go securing Baghdad. Or at least pull out the national guard troops, and have them guard our nation. Oh and authorize the soldiers to fire too. Here's another one, stop sending federal agents doing their job to prison. They could fix this problem if they wanted to, but they don't. They keep finding excuses so they can grant them amnesty.

Personally I have no problem against them comming here as long as they pledge their loyalty to America and they speak decent English. The crap that pisses me off is when these scumbag immigrants come to America and start waving Mexican flags. If Mexico is so freakin' great, GO BACK. I honestly believe that the government has no interest in fixing the problem, they're is no money in it so they don't care.

 

[Gunstar1]

Carlos Mencia had a good idea. Get the illegals to build the wall, then when it is done, ask them if the other side looks good too.

Then lock the door when they go look. 2 birds, 1 stone. Illegals gone and fence built (in 6 days).

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

According to the pro-Second Amendment Gun Owners of America, the legislation also makes it easier to target gun dealers for prosecution. Even gun clubs could find themselves targeted under this immigration reform legislation

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul389.html

Ok, so what about the gun control angle? Has anybody figured this out?

 

[Macktee]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul389.html[/URL]

Ok, so what about the gun control angle? Has anybody figured this out?[/quote:1cf5mu49]

I was sorta wondering about that myself. He makes a statement but offers nothing to back it up or even an explanation as to what he's trying to say. :-k

And, as for our senators... :^o

I've been saying for several years now that Mr. Bush is probably the worst president in my lifetime. I think I can drop the "probably" part of that statement... I think it'll be at least 18 months before anything happens to improve our border security and probably, not even then! As long as the people who pull the strings and really run this country don't want the border sealed, it ain't gonna happen!

Excuse me, I gotta go now. Need to put my tinfoil hat on. The black helicopters are overhead again...

 

[Gunstar1]

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
Wednesday, May 23, 2007

GUN CONTROL IN THE IMMIGRATION BILL

Senator Ted Kennedy and the anti-gun zealots who wrote the bill just
couldn't resist the temptation to get their hands on our guns. They
have included language that GOA has been able to defeat in the past.

When Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) introduced these anti-gun provisions in 1998, the GOA grassroots were able to convince seven senator cosponsors to pull their names from Hatch's bill.

At the time, The Hill newspaper credited GOA with having "generated a significant number of postcards" into Senate offices. "The defecting [seven] senators, echoing the concerns of the GOA, are apprehensive about the violation of Second Amendment rights," reported The Hill.

The current language in the amnesty bill is only slightly different from Hatch's original language almost 10 years ago, but it would essentially do the same thing -- threaten every gun store in America.

In Section 205, for example, all it takes for the employees of a gun shop (of five or more persons) to become a "criminal gang" is:
* For them to commit two or more violations of ANY federal felony gun offense -- which includes virtually all gun offenses, including paperwork violations; and

* For the anti-gunners to find that violating gun laws was a "primary purpose" of the group.

So let's say your local gun store sells two or three firearms to Mayor Bloomberg's thuggish agents under New York City's extraterritorial "sting" operations. Your gun shop is now a "criminal gang."

This provision could even be used against a family of five who drives by two schools on the way to a movie with a gun in the glove compartment. Certainly under a Hillary administration, it would not be surprising to see them treat this infraction as a "felony" under the weird language of Gun Free School Zones Act. Thus, you and your family would become a "criminal gang."

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Well, let's see the language from the bill, not wild speculations about the GFSZA being used to prosecute people driving to a soccer game.

 

[Gunstar1]

Well, let's see the language from the bill, not wild speculations about the GFSZA being used to prosecute people driving to a soccer game.

I hate to say it but if GOA's analysis of this is the same warped view they have of the NICS bill, then the bill will not even remotely allow what they say it does.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

That is what I am afraid of, and if Ron Paul is simply repeating it . . . :roll:

 

[Tinkerhell]

The vote for cloture passed today 65 to 34.
This doesn't mean that the Bill is passed or anything like that. I believe today's vote just bared any further amendments from being brought forth. Not positive about that, but there will be another vote Thur and then a final vote at some point after that. IF I understand the process which is entirely possible I don't.

Anyway our two boys voted "Nay" as they should have. The following Rebuplicans failed to do that however:

Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea

 

[peashooter]

I see some boys going to be without a job next election. [-X

 

[Tinkerhell]

Well I wouldn't necessarily write em all off just yet. It's possible they are taking the stance of - "let's get done with all the talk and get to the vote that counts so I can vote NO". However given the way the politicos now go about things it would have been better to just nix the cloture option & keep this thing from ever getting to a final vote... If it gets to a final vote & passes out of the Senate then I blame these guys for passing the Bill even if they end up voting NO in the one that really counts.

 

[M249]

I don't care if G-d himself comes down and campaigns for Sell-Out Saxby, he's not getting my vote.

The 17th Amendment has completely negated the original purpose of the Senate.

 

[jrm]

There was not a cloture vote Tuesday. Tuesday's vote was to reopen debate. Today's cloture vote was defeated, both GA senators voting against. The bill is essentially dead now.