Illinois - Can Police Arrest Person Carrying Gun Without First Checking If He's Licensed?

Discussion in 'National Laws, Bills and Politics' started by jgullock, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. jgullock

    jgullock Active Member

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    No, says the Illinois :shock: Appellate Court:

    http://reason.com/volokh/2018/06/17/can-police-arrest-person-carrying-gun-wi

     
  2. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Just wait, the LEOs will appeal (using taxpayers money) to the Illinois Supremes.
     

  3. Craftsman

    Craftsman Well-Known Member

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    I predict a rash of jaywalking, spitting on the sidewalk, walking in the street, or other made up, unprovable offenses where Illinois cops can continue to ignore the Fourth Amendment.
     
  4. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Your tag light is out.....
     
  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Or furtive movements. Like breathing.
     
  6. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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  7. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Remember, this is IL. I am half surprised their CoA held the way they did. If you recall it had to go to 7th Circuit CoA for them to get a 2A there.

    Nemo
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, but we should not forget why it was added to the Code. Police were detaining lawful carriers for no reasonable suspicion of a crime, and the Georgia Court of Appeals even upheld the practice for a GCO member detained by Marta cops for more than a half hour, no crime whatsoever suspected.

    It was enough, declared the court, that he was carrying a concealed weapon, meaning the officer who saw him conceal it was witnessing an already completed crime.

    Imagine how your day might go if officer after officer after officer could detain you at will like this, a half hour at a time . . .
     
    tmoore912 and UtiPossidetis like this.
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    We even had a GPDO poster proned out at gunpoint in DeKalb. The old days on this forum . . .
     
  10. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but I ask the question again am I legally required to show a police officer my permit if asked for it. I see no problem with doing so. I have heard many different answers to the question.
     
  11. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is you are required to have it on you but not required to produce it upon request.

    That's just my understanding
     
  12. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    OCGA 16-11-137(a) states you must have your license with you whenever carrying your weapon. Not having it is a $10 fine. I don't know if the fine equates to a misdemeanor. Can someone clarify this. It doesn't specifically state it must be shown.

    How does this reconcile with OCGA 16-11-137(b)?
     
  13. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    You mean like being detained and surrounded by a half dozen Gwinnett County Police officers for doing nothing more than walking in a public park, on the pedestrian pathway, during operating hours, and not interfacing with a single person there?
    No, honestly, I can't imagine something like that ever happening.
     
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  14. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    You provoked them by wearing "police socks." Admit it. :lol:
     
  15. Craftsman

    Craftsman Well-Known Member

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    In Georgia according to legal theory carrying a firearm is not RAS or PC. In practice, the police can and will stop you if they choose. They will lie and make up a tipster or that you are a suspicious person or that you failed to maintain lane. The DA will always support them. Your best hope is to play along, record the encounter, and hope they are too stupid to recite the magic anti-constitution incantations correctly. Don't let on that you intend to sue them. State that you do not consent but you will comply with their orders. If they repeat any request, treat it as an order and state for the recording that you are complying with their order.
    You might want to invest in software that streams video/audio directly to secure cloud storage. Recording devices have an almost perfect failure rate in police custody. Judges have a near perfect record of NOT convicting police of destroying evidence when recordings disappear.
     
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  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, he left out this important information to make himself look better. He was scaring the children with those tactical socks.
     
  17. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't answer your question. Not enough facts are given.

    The police may not detain you merely for the carriage of a firearm or merely to determine whether you have a license, but additional facts could change that situation so that the word "merely" no longer applies. For example, is it 2:00 a.m, and are you behind a business with a crowbar, wearing all black and a ski mask? You may have very good reasons for all of this, it is cold, your face is sensitive, it is your business, and you need the crowbar for a task, and you are carrying the gun because it is 2:00 a.m. for self protection, but, um, you probably better cooperate and show the officer whatever he wants to see.
     
  18. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
    Your 2am example would certainly require a bunch of scrutiny by LEO.
    Try this. I walk into a local barbecue place for lunch. I am OC. There are a couple of LEO having lunch. One of them stares a hole through me and my 45.He gets up comes over and ask to see my permit. In that situation am I required to show him the permit. In very similar situations I have told them to have a nice day and continued with what I was doing. Though I admit that in this town that I worked as LEO for 15 years these new bearded tattooed officers of the law concern me a little as to how much common sense and general intelligence they have.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    What crime does he believe you have/are committing does he has PC or RS for? Otherwise I'd say that 16-11-137(b) rules.
     
  20. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Is that somehow related to breaded veal cutlets? :yum: :lol: