If you go into a store with a gun and rob it . . .

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Nemo, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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  2. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    So he had a "loaded" 9mm handgun but it did not have a round in the chamber? To me that makes it unloaded...
     

  3. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    You gonna ask to check the chamber before you decide to give up your wallet or shoot first?

    Nemo
     
  4. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    I was making comment on the article about a "loaded" gun. Not the response inflicted on the idiot for not having a "loaded" gun.
     
  5. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I think it almost every set of circumstances imaginable a gun that has loaded cartridges in the magazine , where inside magazine is attached to the gun in the normal position for operation, should be considered loaded.

    This is true whether the issue is “safety” or the legality of carrying or storing a firearm.

    To me a “loaded” gun is one that has ammo in it, either in the magazine or in the chamber, or in any chambers of a revolver cylinder.

    The only exception would be for side-saddle shell holders in shotguns and some very rare survival rifles (or aftermarket stocks) that have a storage compartment for ammo, but it’s not a magazine because the ammo cannot be fired or chambered directly from that storage compartment, unless you pluck the rounds out with your hands and feed them into the magazine or chamber !
     
  6. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    For which the store clerk will be eternally grateful.
     
  7. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    What was Jeff Cooper's Rule #1? All guns are loaded. All the time. There are no exceptions. Your mileage will not vary. Govern yourself accordingly. :shoot:
     
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  8. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Of course there are such things as unloaded guns. In law and in fact.

    When I clean my gun (which only happens after it’s been fully unloaded and separated from the ammo) I will look down the bore, pointing it at my own eye. I will turn the weapon in many different positions on my workbench . Sometimes places where I don’t want to send a bullet. But that’s part of the cleaning process .

    At many public rifle ranges you are expected to lay your unloaded gun down, chamber locked open, during a cease-fire after which you will walk forward of the firing line to pick up your brass and change your targets.
    While you do this, all of the rifles and other guns on the firing line will be aiming at your own backs. It’s OK because the guns are fully unloaded with the actions locked open— so this is acceptable.
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Suppose a non-GWL person, a hunter, is walking along a public road with his hog hunting rifle, after his hunting day is over and he has unloaded the weapon’s chamber and removed the magazine and put it in his coat pocket .

    It is an AR carbine with an 18.1” barrel and a telescoping stock.

    It starts to rain, and he opens his extra big Carhartt coat and tucks that rifle next to his chest and covers it back up to keep it dry...

    ... can he be arrested for unlawfully carrying a loaded, concealed long gun?

    See O.C.G.A. 16-11-126.

    Will you be a witness for the prosecution and tell everybody all guns are always loaded all the time? Can the guy be convicted based on Jeff Cooper’s rule #1?
     
  10. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    Despite GS's "laywering" your comment I get ya Moe. Any gun held by someone I perceive as threatening to me in any manner is a loaded gun. Which means I perceive my life to be threatened. Any reasonable person must make that assumption.
     
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    He can be arrested for being a scary guy with a gun who has a big nose, regardless of the size of his nose. Just like any decent prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.

    Yes I will be a witness for the prosecution that because of the safety concerns to me I treat every gun as if it is always loaded until I make sure otherwise and I KNOW it is safe.

    Then I will defer to defense counsel for the specifics on the legalities of the issue. IIRC you have a bar card and should know that yourself.

    Nemo
     
  12. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I prefer, "Any gun held by someone...is a loaded gun." It keeps it simple. :mrgreen:
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    GCO believes Jeff Cooper was right. :righton:

    http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/firearm-safety/
     
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  14. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    The law may distinguish between a loaded and unloaded firearm. I don't. For safety purposes all guns are loaded all of the time. Even if partially disassembled I still consider it a threat.
     
  15. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    "For safety purposes" you say?
    So you follow proper muzzle discipline when cleaning a firearm on your workbench? You really never look down the bore of a rifle that is of a design where you can't look through the chamber with your eye directly? (AK/ SKS, Marlin 60, Ruger 10/22...) You never look down the bore of a revolver ??
     
  16. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    How about for non-safety purposes?

    Suppose you recently traded into an antique Remington rolling block rifle chambered for 43 Spanish Mauser.

    You have not yet obtained any ammunition in that caliber. You're in the process of researching where you might be able to buy some online. It's an obsolete cartridge, and hasn't been available through normal commercial channels since the 1940's.

    You have that Remington rifle in your vehicle. One day you are approaching your vehicle when you see a car burglar has just smashed your window and is ransacking your car. The only weapon that you have in your car is that antique Remington rifle you see him pull that gun out.

    You draw your weapon and tell him to stop. He turns around and says "my gun is bigger than yours!" and points that antique Remington rifle at you. Can you shoot? Legally, and with full disclosure of all these facts to law-enforcement officers and prosecutors. No lying, and no concealing of evidence.
     
  17. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    Cap him! I didn't know if he had ammo for it or not. No lie. Just fact.
     
  18. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    When I saw the now-deceased perpetrator ransacking my car I confronted him. He turned to me and started yelling incoherently and pointed what appeared to be a firearm at me in a threatening manner. I was in fear for my life so I immediately drew my handgun and shot him. I immediately called 911 for assistance. Only after the police arrived and secured the scene did I discover that the perpetrator's weapon was in fact my firearm that I had left in my car.
     
  19. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Moe, that's a lie. You knew it was your rifle, and knew there was no ammo for it in your car, or at any gun store within 100 miles.
     
  20. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Bright daylight? 100% no mistaking that it was his gun, or is a certain percentage point worth risking your life over?