Hypothetical: LEO Encounter / Locking your doors.

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by AeroShooter, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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    In this thread there was discussion regarding what do to do if a LEO asks one to step from one's vehicle. A comment was to lock your vehicle upon exiting as an obstacle to a casual search. If the officer were to ask one for the keys and one refuses (i.e. citing 4th admendment grounds, demanding a warrant ectera), what happens then?
     
  2. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Unfortunately, you'll probably get some sort of bully tactics like "If you have nothing to hide why do you mind if I look?" (respond with either a blank stare or a "If you have no probable cause of a crime why do you want to look?" Don't forget "Am I free to go?") You might also get some sort of mention of holding your car there while they go get a warrant (tell them to go ahead if they have a few hours to kill by filling out a warrant application and finding a judge or just give them a blank stare and asking if you are free to go).

    Bottom line is if the officer has nothing you should be on your way soon. Don't give in to any threats. If the officer has enough to force things he isn't going to spend time playing games.
     

  3. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Sounds like good advice. Has anyone actually tried what was in the OP? If so, what happened?
     
  4. tj2000

    tj2000 New Member

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    YES.......................

    I got stopped a couple of years ago by clayton counties finest just south of the airport. It was at night on my way to deer camp and I was going 10 mph over the posted limit.
    He got out of his car and walked up to mine with his hand on his pistol, I handed him my i.d, ins, and gfl. I let him know I was open carrying, he asked me o step out of my jeep and as I exited I locked the door. He had a suprised look on his face and asked if I had somthing to hide. All I said was am I free to go, he got very upset and said he could take my pistol and impound my vehicle and get a warrent to go though every inch of my jeep as well as putting me in a holding cell. He asked what I thought about that and my reply was, am I free to go. He walked back to his car and made a radio call and after a few minutes another officer showed up, it was a supervisor this time. He talked with the other officer and then introduced himself to me. he handed me my i.d's and said I was free to go and good luck on my hunting trip. He did notice my pistol but said nothing.
    Sorry for the long post.
    8)
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: YES.......................

    That's what legacy 38 was talking about.

    :lol:
     
  6. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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    I did not want to cloud the responses by adding my thoughts initially but my thought in this case was this: If the officer has sufficient basis under the law to search me or my vehicle then locking the door would be moot -- even if I were to refuse to hand them over, I'm confident I would find myself cuffed, searched, keys retrieved, etc.

    I have already dedicated myself to asking "Am I free to go?" I just haven't been stopped by a LEO to give it a work out. Unfortunate, don't you think?
     
  7. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Do a search for Carroll Doctrine.
     
  8. GAGunOwner

    GAGunOwner Active Member

    Re: YES.......................

    Because of Magesi couldn't the offficer search the car once he had reason to believe that a gun was present, even if he felt tj2000 didn't pose a risk to his safety?
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    U.S. Supreme Court
    CARROLL v. U.S., 267 U.S. 132 (1925)

    267 U.S. 132

    CARROLL et al.
    v.
    UNITED STATES.
    No. 15.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g ... &invol=132



    I noticed it was reargued....isn't that rare for SCOTUS?
     
  10. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 1:16

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    I don't mind stepping from my car, but I will not agree to a search of my car. Believe me, I have the "am I free to go" line down pat. I know that I will have nothing to hide and I know that LEO will not have PC to search my car either.
     
  11. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    If you are asserting your rights and asking, "am I free to go?", then why do you need to lock your door? If they feel they have PC to search you, then they will just cuff you (for your own protection 8) ) take your keys and then have a look-see.

    Locked doors or not, they will search if they want to. It's more important to keep anything you don't want seen out of view FROM ALL ANGLES as they have the right to peer into your windows.
     
  12. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    If you do not lock your doors, and the officer does a search without your verbal permission and PC. What can be done?

    I'm sure this happens often... And I know cops have perviously gotten permission from individuals by using trickery with words. And the individual not relize they just gave permission. But what can you then do? Say to the officer at that point "stop, I didn't give you permission to preform a search."?

    It just seems like some individuals could forget in the heat of the moment to lock doors, or not want to even push the officers into trying to pressure you. But remember at the last moment.

    I guess it's just a hypothetical I thought of while reading posts.
     
  13. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    If an officer conducts an illegal search it becomes a court issue unless a supervisor catches and stops it or the prosecutor realizes it and dumps the case.

    Also remember that consent can be withdrawn at anytime and can be conditional.
     
  14. curtdiss

    curtdiss Member

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    Can you go into more detail about this statement, please. Perhaps an example...thanks
     
  15. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    Sure. Suppose you have given consent to search your vehicle. At any time you can tell the officers to stop searching, and they must stop. If not, everything beyond that point is an illegal search. Furthermore, the police must maintain some sort of communication with you so that you have the ability to withdraw consent. For instance, a single officer should not lock you in his patrol car and then go search your vehicle as you had no way to withdraw consent. However, if an officer stands back at the patrol car with you so that you could communicate that you want a consent search stopped then it is a good search. Another example would be someone else being in possession of your vehicle, and the police call you and ask for consent to search. As long as they maintained phone communication with you or some other means of communication the search would be good.

    As for conditional, you could give permission to search the passenger compartment but deny permission to search your trunk.
     
  16. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter New Member

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    I got back 20 hits for Carroll O'Conner. :lol:

    Seriously, reading the abstract, it would seem that this erosion of our 4th Admendment rights came about from a distant cousin (Prohibition) to the current War on Drugs.
     
  17. Sgt.B

    Sgt.B New Member

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    If you are stopped and the officer asks you to exit the vehicle can you legally/rightfully refuse to do so?

    Not to be a jerk to the officer but are we bound by the law to obey this request.

    I was asked to exit the vehicle once. I was CC. The officer didn't see my pistol and I didn't tell him I was armed. He wanted to show me something about my licence plate and that was it.

    Hey Legacy38, I hope you don't start charging us a fee to bounce questions off ya. :D
     
  18. Thorsen

    Thorsen New Member

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    When I was around 17 I was stopped by a cop for going to fast in a neighborhood (I was). He then asked me to step from my car, which I did. And then after checking my driver's license and questioning me as to why I was in the neighborhood (I had just come from a friend's house) he said, "well let's take a look and see if you have anything in your car".

    No questions. He just decided he was going to look in my car. Well he did. I had nothing in there and he ended up telling me to slow down and let me go.

    As a kid I didn't know what my rights were and that they were being violated. I know better now.

    Hell, I won't even let the officer lecture me if I am pulled over for speeding. I politely told the last one that I would take the ticket or the lecture, but not both (I knew I was getting the ticket anyway as he was already writing and I'll be damned if I gonna get chewed out and take a ticket as well).
     
  19. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    I won't, but remember that you're getting what you pay for. :)

    Yes, an officer may have all occupants exit or stay in a vehicle on a stop.
     
  20. Sgt.B

    Sgt.B New Member

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    :righton: Legacy38,Thanks.