HR 4477 / S 2135 NICS Bill

Discussion in 'National Laws, Bills and Politics' started by Malum Prohibitum, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Passed yesterday the Judiciary Committee.

    Haven't seen any news on it. NAGR, GGO, and GOA are all opposed to it, which doesn't really tell me a whole lot.
     
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  2. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    Because the solution to not following the law is to pass another law. That will work.

    GOA is complaining it will block "purchasing guns for offenses as slight as unpaid traffic tickets" but I'm not seeing it. The bill appears to add more red tape to the process of reporting people by requiring all Federal departments to certify they reported everything every year. The head of a department who does not certify doesn't get his bonus pay.

    But in general, if Feinstein is for a gun-related bill, I'm against it.
     
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  3. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    Rep. Thomas Massie, R-KY, has posted an interesting, and somewhat alarming, analysis on the problems with the Fix NICS bill and its possible inclusion as an amendment to HR 38. But he posted it on Facebook. It's a long post, so I'm reluctant to reproduce it here. But you can read his post here:

    https://www.facebook.com/RepThomasMassie/posts/1843059172384905

    Summing it up, the Fix NICS bill has a lot of things wrong with it, that will require fixes to make it halfway acceptable to pro gun groups. The biggest problem is, it compels administrative agencies to add more names to the "no buy" list in NICS, names being added similar to the attempt to have names of veterans and SS recipients who have someone assisting them with financial affairs added, and without a court adjudicating this removal of gun rights. Looks like a political play in the Swamp.

    Here is the first two paragraphs of his FB post:

     
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  4. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Take a minute to read it. It's important. Citizens that may have no desire to ever own a firearm lose that right without even knowing what happened.
     
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  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    So much for the "peoples' representatives" eh? :groupprotest:
     
  6. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    I was suspicious of why suddenly the reciprocity bill was magically getting new traction. Now I know.

    I'm still not seeing where the bill does anything other than add red-tape paperwork to federal agencies. Where is the pathway for adding VA names, Medicare names, etc.? The bill limits the names to those already prohibited.

     
  7. TimBob

    TimBob Old, Slow, Boring Dude

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    It may be another case of "we have to pass it to find out what's in it." Congress Critters seem to like that approach.
     
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  8. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    NRA members, please listen to timestamp 2:55.

     
  9. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    Having read both bills a few times, and listened to very smart pro 2A folks like Ed Stone, Jerry Henry, and Mark Walters, I feel reasonably reassured that we are not looking at gun armageddon here. However, I would still support the Senate decoupling both bills and letting them stand on their own merits. If they are good bills, so be it. Don't play games and combine bills. I will be calling on my senators to support splitting up the bills,and same call going to my U.S. rep, as well.
     
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  10. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    Can anyone point to black and white language in the bill that is bad? Seriously.

    This is why we can’t have nice laws. Our side fractures, splits, and ankle-bites on any and everything that is still an incremental improvement.

    Nothing gets done without compromise. As far as compromises goes, FixNICS is a pretty acceptable thing to let the Dems have. Theirs is not a step back; ours is a step forward.
     
  11. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    I will agree with you, to a point. But I remain skeptical. Do you think most of us in the pro gun community have any reason at all to trust Washington on these matters? I'm still puzzled about why we need a brand new law that says, "enforce current laws, but better." It's always, "it will take just one more law", and all our troubles will be over, right? But even so, if they are good bills, they can stand alone and be voted on alone. I think that's a great compromise that I'm willing to support.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Mainly because government people are not doing their job. This bill is going to have some actual penalties for those persons (agency heads) who neglect their duties. For federal employees, who get a bonus annually, it will be withheld if they do not get their act together.

    For a bunch of people here who scream and cry about government employees not doing their job and needing to be held personally responsible, I find it baffling that some of the same of you are opposing the bill because it holds government employees who do not do their job personally accountable.
     
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  13. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    I'm still skeptical that this is needed, but like I said, I'm willing to consider the measure as a standalone bill, giving it the benefit of the doubt that you are right, and we must have "one more law" to get government workers the needed incentives and penalties to enforce existing law. Let the Senate scrutinize and debate and amend the bill to make it as good as possible, and if it is good and it makes it back to the House, I'm fine with that.
     
  14. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    The FixNICS could be what gives some Democrats “cover” to vote for the Reciprocity that’s part of it.
     
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  15. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Anytime the restoration of "dangerous" liberty is considered, there has to be some "safety" sugar-coating on top to help keep the sheep from turning rabid on you.
     
  16. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Can you imagine millions of NYC residents and visitors suddenly being able to carry a firearm there? One wonders how many violent criminals will be shot in the first month this goes into effect.

    One also wonders how many citizens will lose their right to carry by using their weapons in self-defense in off-limits locations, of which more will be added by cities and states just to trap citizens who only want to carry a gun to keep from getting hurt by criminals.

    One would think oftentimes that governments are on the side of armed thugs.
     
  17. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, "nice" is not a qualifying adjective for "laws."
     
  18. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    I'm cool with it, yet knowing that even with this law in place, our government will only use it in a corrupt way, when they need to hurt someone for political or other non-legit reasons, and will not be used fairly in the way you probably imagine it properly being used.

    The lazy, inept, or malicious will never be fined or penalized, they will always be protected. Especially those that play the game.

    I know government, I know regulations, and I also know big corportions as well.

    Giving men power over others only leads to bad effects because men are sinful, their hearts are corrupt, they use their mind for evil and corruption.

    Yes, even Christian men, our hearts are evil and corrupt.