How long to mail??

Discussion in 'General GWL Questions' started by foshizzle, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    According to the Dekalb probate, my GFL was mailed 08/25/2006. It is now 09/06/2006. I called them today, 7 business days later (excluding the holiday), asking about it and they replied that "sometimes the mail takes a while from the court". I find this odd that, you would think the court would mail things promptly, I am 2 miles away from it and how ironic this applies to a pistol license. I'm "active" in the system, just no permit yet.

    I'm giving it until Monday, then I'm going down there in person (AGAIN) and I'm going to tell them I lost it. I know I have to pay an 8$ charge, but will I get my new license that day? I'd hate for them to 'mail' it again.

    It's about 2.5 months since my application and I've cordially visited them, in person, 4 times since then. No finger pointing or bugging them... just letting them know my face and that I'm not just going to stand by and wait for 6 months.

    Anyone else have a long delay from the date the probate signs it and the date you receive it? Do you think my plan to just tell them I lost it will get me a new one that day?

    Thanks. And I've been browsing here for 3 months.. first post lol... love the board.
     
  2. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well, with my luck if I did as you suggest and paid for a lost license it would be in the mail when I got home.
     

  3. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    I'm willing to run that risk for 8 bucks. Anyone done this? Will I get it the same day? If I get it soon, I think I may have enough experience with these people to help others in Dekalb sort throught the madness. God knows I've been at the probate court enough.
     
  4. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Yes they should be able to give you one that day. And it is only $5 not $8.

     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    2.5 months is pretty quick from DeKalb County (which habitually violates the 60 day provision of O.C.G.A. 16-11-129(d)(4)). Electronic fingerprints, I presume?
     
  6. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    It's 8 bucks for a lost/damaged license in DeKalb. They don't play by the rules.

    Yes, they were done electronically, and I've stayed on top of it with polite visits about every 2.5 weeks.

    It was on the judges desk on 8/18. It was mailed (supposedly) on 8/25. It's now 9/8 and still nothing in the mail.

    I know that this is 'fast' for DeKalb... but even though I've been told that it's "active" in their system and has been mailed two weeks ago... I don't consider that fast. I still don't have it. That's why I'm trying to get it any way possible... saying that I just lost it being my easiest alternative... I've asked a few times and they're basically just telling me to wait for the mail. 2 weeks is long enough to wait. No WAY it takes two weeks.

    I'm really curious if there is usually a 3-4 week difference from when it was approved to when it is received. They know me by face in there now, and if I don't have it by Tuesday, I'm going there Wednesday and telling them I lost it and will pay the 8 bucks to re-issue.

    I'm just hoping that they can give me one on the spot instead of 'mailing' it again. I shouldn't have to wait this long... it may have been "issued" at 60 days, but if it takes two months after that to actually get it to me in the mail... something is wrong!
     
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't lie; Tell them the USPS lost it.

    And print out and bring a copy of this.
    http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl ... de=15-9-60

    Don't forget to use super bright yellow highlighter on subsection (a), subsection (k), and subsubsection (k)(13) to make it easy for them.

    Maybe there is another provision in the law allowing them to tack on the extra three bucks? Maybe so, but at least if you give them this statute they will have to explain it to you.

    Somebody should point this statute out to the probate court. Maybe you think it should be left to somebody else in your county? :D
     
  8. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Well, I went down to the probate today to talk to them in person.

    My permit was indeed "mailed" on 8/25/2006. I inquired as to why I have not received it as of 09/15/2006. I was told that there was an "announcement on television" that informed them that the North Decatur postal facility was experiencing long delays delivering mail from the Dekalb courthouse. For first time applicants, this delay could be up to 6 months. Since I was over there, I drove to the North Decatur main post office and asked them about it. They had no idea what I was talking about.

    The lady at probate said that they would not re-issue me my permit even though I told them the USPS indeed did lose it since there is no way the post office would say they can't deliver mail for 6 months. They would not issue me a temporary permit as they do not issue them (add dekalb to the list). I asked to see the judge, the lady said she wouldn't see me over this. I got a phone number anyways, left a message trying to make an appointment anyway.

    Is there ANYTHING I can do? I'm not waiting 6 months. I know there is a lawsuit going on... but how do I start my own? Mine isn't being held up by a background check... i've actually seen it lol!! They got back an old arrest that was a misdemeanor but they wanted dispostition anyway. That had no problem getting through the mail in 3 days. I cleared that up. So, the background check isn't stopping it... it's the POST OFFICE???

    What can I do??
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    :rotfl:
     
  10. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    It IS pretty funny isn't it? I was trying so hard not to argue but it was the most ridiculous thing I had ever heard. I just said "Have a nice weekend" and walked out... I was about to explode. I swear that smoke was coming out of my ears.

    **EDIT** The assistant to the probate judge called me back. She seemed rather irate that I was told it was the post offices fault. She tried to call down to the people who gave me that info and I guess they are busy. She said she'll get back with me by Monday and she'll try to re-issue it although I may have to come in to re-sign the permit. Sounds fair to me... lets hope it all works out! She seemed genuinely concerned. Keeping my fingers crossed!
     
  11. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I am sorry, but that is hilarious. I cannot even believe they said it with a straight face.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Great! Sorry for laughing, man, but that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

    Government people never cease to amaze me.

    Let us know what happens on Monday, please.
     
  13. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Got it today :twisted:

    Dekalb never met a person like me lol. Applied 6/23, approved 8/22 actually received 9/20. Just under 3 months which is pretty good for DeKalb I think.

    In all, it took around 5 trips in person to the probate court, and probably 5 phone calls. I called the court today and let them know that the probate judge executive secretary (I assume that was her role), told me I could get a "re-issue". The clerk tried to stonewall me even longer telling me I had to wait 5 more days until 30 days since mailing had passed. I informed her to call M. Landau. She told me she would call me back after 3 but ended up calling back by 1030 telling me that my permit was ready for pickup any time before 4 and would be free of charge.

    VICTORY!!!

    I like to think that my polite visits and inquiries helped out the general public too. When I actually went to get it this afternoon, I told the clerk my name and she wouldn't even look me in the eye. She went ahead, printed it, I resigned it and she laminated it... got it in 2 minutes.

    GOOD THING IS... there were about 300-400 permits in rubber-banded piles with a printout of a "mailing list" on her desk. I like to think that all of those (probably old) permits are going to be mailed out soon, and that all my visits helped out a couple of our brothers and sisters.

    The system can be beat... or at least work more in our favor.. with persistance. Although YMMV, I think that a smile and polite, informed conversation goes a long way. People don't want to argue, generally, the clerks are just doing what they are told to... gotta stand up for what you want... like I told them... If I bought 50 bucks worth of DVD's from Amazon, it wouldn't be good business to wait 4 months for them to ship...

    I'll update the County Forum... maybe someone else can use this info.
     
  14. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    On a side note.. I'm torn here... looking for input.

    I'm not going to sue Dekalb. I was fully prepared to do so if I didn't get my permit this week. I know it would be useless, but I thought i could set a precedent since my background WAS approved in a month... and shouldn't have had any affect on the approval time. The length of time to do the background seems to be the legal sticking point.. in my case, it wasn't an issue.

    My question.... Should I do what I think is right and write a strongly worded letter to the probate judge? I want to re-iterate the law itself, some of the run-around I have got from the probate clerks as well as delving briefly into the law and why we, as law abiding citizens should be embraced, not shunned. Since they brought the N. Decatur post office into it, I was planning on mailing the postmaster to inform him as well as informing the rest of the judges in the Dekalb courthouse to let them know that the Probate court says it can take up to 6 months for mail to get to the recipient from that location. I will also write our senators and the president, leaving out C. McKinney for obvious reasons.

    Would I be hurting the cause or helping it? I have my permit, but I'm not giving up that easy. If it's just going to hurt everyone else, I will take my pemit and shut up, but I kinda think I should keep up the pressure since they obviously listened.... being polite and responsible the whole time of course!
     
  15. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

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    As I see it, what you have found is at the very heart of the time limit issue and litigation. Perhaps the GA can be viewed as not wanting to issue licenses without a completed background check, but the clerk's dilly dallying is exactly the sort of the thing the statute should address. For my vote, I would send your letter. The lying and pinning it on the post office, the postmaster should take issue with that as well, I would think.
     
  16. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    In DeKalb as well as Fulton County, the people in the office will blame anyone except themselves for a delay.

    You can expect to hear that the GBI, or the FBI, or the Post Office is the problem, certainly not them.
    I can also tell you that 99% of the time, no one else either in the surrounding counties or as in your case the surrounding offices are having any of the problems the clerks claim to be having.

    The lies keep changing but the delays stay the same. You should send a letter, but realize that it could be an anti-gun judge trying to make the application process troublesome enough that people will not bother to apply.
     
  17. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well it could be that the processing the applications (signing, sealing, and then laminating) is a job with the lowest of priorities for office staff.

    So instead of as soon as reasonably possible, you wind up with whenever they get around to it.
     
  18. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Re: What benefit do they get by stalling?

    My permit was received 9.20 and expires 8/22/11. I lost a month thanks to their procrastination. Had I waited for them to take their sweet time and actually mail it vice demanding it, it would have been more like 4 months lost.
     
  19. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Here is the letter I'm going to send... YES ITS LONG I KNOW... lol I can't just say 10 sentences on it.

    Dear Ms. Rosh,

    I am writing this email in regards to a recent experience I have had while seeking approval for my application for a Georgia Firearms License. As a 3 year resident of Dekalb county, Georgia, I recently took it upon myself to apply for a Georgia Firearms License. The reasons I applied for this license are varied, two of the main reasons being personal protection and to simplify the legal purchasing of firearms as well as ease the transportation of firearms to and from shooting events. As you know, most police responses are to crimes that have already been committed, especially those of a violent nature, including armed robbery, burglary and home invasion, rape and murder. In most situations, between the call to 911 and the arrival of the police, citizens of Georgia need the capability to protect themselves in the interim. In addition to the personal protection of myself and my loved ones, a Georgia Firearms License allows me to purchase firearms without the bureaucracy of submitting to a potentially lengthy federal background check for each firearm I choose to purchase from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Finally, while possessing a GFL, I am allowed to legally transport a firearm on my person, which greatly reduces the need for holstering/re-holstering weapons while in transit to local shooting events.

    I hope you can understand why my desire to obtain a Georgia Firearm License compelled me to inform you of a potential violation of Georgia Code 16-11-129, specifically subsection (d)(4):

    “Not later than 60 days after the date of the application the judge of the probate court shall issue the applicant a license or renewal license to carry any pistol or revolver if no facts establishing ineligibility have been reported and if the judge determines the applicant has met all the qualifications, is of good moral character, and has complied with all the requirements contained in this Code section.â€

    I realize that your court is busy and that, despite the requirement of Georgia law, you and your staff may have difficulty meeting the requirements set forth by GA 16-11-129. I have no problems with that… I want every GFL applicant to be properly screened and licensed.

    My problem, however, lies in the timeline of events leading to the actual issue of my GFL… specifically those responses from the probate staff that my GFL was approved on August 22, mailed on August 25th, and was not delivered at all until I inquired in person on September 20th. One week after my license was mailed, I inquired to the probate court as to its disposition, since I had not received it.. I was informed that mail leaving the probate court was subject to an unanticipated waiting period due to volume. I was willing to accept this explanation for 3 weeks. After 3 weeks, and another personal inquiry at the court, I was informed that, and I paraphrase…

    “We were informed on television that mail leaving the courthouse is subject to an extremely long delay. First time applicants for pistol licenses may have their licenses held by N. Decatur Post Office for up to 6 months following mailing.â€

    Naturally, since the courthouse routinely mails such important documentation as court orders, summons and notices of jury duty, I found this explanation to be highly suspect. I proceeded to the North Decatur Post Office and was informed that, under no circumstances, would the post office either delay or hold my mail from the Dekalb courthouse. I did specifically ask the probate clerk if my license was mailed and had left the building, and the reply was that “Yes, we mailed it, and it is out of our hands.†To further my frustration, the court did require disposition of a previous misdemeanor arrest I had 8 years ago, and that letter had no trouble reaching me 2 days after the postmark.

    I would like to re-iterate that I believe that the probate court staff were helpful and assisted me in any way they could. I visited the probate court, in person, at least 5 times and was greeted professionally and treated with respect each time. Upon being told that my license was being held by North Decatur post office, I did request to speak to you, the probate judge. I was informed that you would not speak to me on an issue such as this. As an elected official, I had hoped that I would at least be granted an audience with an appointment. I did find a phone number to make an appointment and was put in contact with Ms. Landau. Ms. Landau proceeded to listen to my concerns, alleviate my fears that my license and personal information were lost in the postal system and expedited a re-issue through the court.

    I did receive my license on September 20th, 2006. The license itself was dated August 22, 2006… almost a full month before I received it… with a significant amount of effort and time off from work on my part over these past 3 months… not to mention the fact I made at least 4 separate face-to-face inquiries to your already busy staff.

    I hope that it does not seem trivial that I am complaining over the issuance of a license that took 3 weeks longer than the 8 weeks required by law… quite the contrary. My main concern is that I was approved, had my license mailed and had not received it in over 3 weeks. Had I not forced the issue by my persistence, I fear that my license may have taken up to the 6 months to receive as quoted by one of your clerks, even though it was approved in the required 2 months. Personally, as a law-abiding citizen of Georgia, I feel that if I meet the laws and regulations pertaining to the issuance of a GFL, that the issuing authorities will also meet the requirements pertaining to the approval of said license. I find it disturbing that the probate court would tell me that my license could take up to 4 months to mail, and blame the problem on the post office, as well as implying that all the mail originating from the Courthouse Annex could take up to 6 months to deliver.

    From reading your biography, I see that you are concerned over the issues facing some of our most vulnerable citizens… the elderly. I also understand that you will work and will continue to improve making your operation more accessible and the legal matters more understandable. As a means to those ends, I would respectfully suggest that you re-iterate to your staff the requirements of GA-16-11-129, from the perspective of the applicant and that of the issuing authority. The elderly and the uninformed are two examples of those that require attention in this matter. The elderly cannot easily defend themselves, and, quite honestly, are one group that is often victimized by crime that could be prevented by personal defensive measures. The uninformed rely on the probate court to assist in the recognizance of their state mandated liberties and rights. I can safely assure you that no criminals would dare seek the issuance of a GFL, especially considering the fingerprinting, background check and probate review. I urge your further cooperation and assistance in issuing all future Georgia Firearms Licenses as quickly as is legally possible.


    I feel obligated to inform the United States Postal Service that there is a potential delay in the time from delivery to that of receipt of mail coming from the courthouse annex, as well as informing the other 10 judges in Dekalb county that it has been reported to me that significant delays (up to 6 months), may be possible in mail originating at the courthouse annex. Due to the professionalism of your staff, and the belief that the probate court does indeed act in the best interest of law-abiding citizens, I will instead rely on this correspondence to you to voice my concerns and ask for your assistance.


    Very respectfully,
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


    Is it too much, too little or should I just shut up? It will be emailed and snail-mailed.