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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5099999

Man with a gun call, but he does not have a gun. They order him to raise his hands, and he desparately tries to explain that he cannot raise his hands above his shoulder due to an old war injury (Korea), so the police decide to "go hands on" and tackle him, with at least one officer kicking him in the ribs while he was down.

74 years old.

Oh, and the officers thought he had a gun on him. In Utah. Turns out he had a copy of the park rules.

The police will not release the names of witnesses so this guy can investigate.

Minutes later, the report states, Officer Bryce Curdie arrived and put Lund at gunpoint.
"He told me, 'Put your hands above your head or I'll shoot you dead,' " Lund recalled. "And I said, 'I can't, I was hurt in the war.' "
The first officer at the scene is reported to have looked like this:

 

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UPDATE!! UPDATE!! UPDATE!!

From Volokk at

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008 ... 1228842974

District Court Suggests Second Amendment May Protect Possession of Firearms in Public: From Lund v. Salt Lake City Corp., 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 98722 (D. Utah Dec. 4):

By itself, mere possession of a firearm in public is not unlawful and may well represent the exercise of a fundamental constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, § 6 of the Utah Constitution (recognizing the "individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes," subject to the power of the Legislature to define the "lawful use of arms."). See District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783, 2799 (2008) ("There seems to us no doubt, on the basis of both text and history, that the Second Amendment conferred an individual right to keep and bear arms.") ....

This doesn't contradict the Heller Court's assertion that concealed carry might be limited on the historical grounds that "the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues."

Here are a few excerpts from the rest of the decision, that help show what this Fourth Amendment case was about:

On November 25, 2006, plaintiff Miles Lund was visiting Liberty Park, a public park located in downtown Salt Lake City, and feeding the ducks that gather on the large pond in the southeast quadrant of the park. Responding to a report of a man with a gun at the park, Officer Curdie arrived, identified Lund as the suspected man with a gun, and approached Lund from behind. When Officer Curdie first saw Lund, he was facing away from Curdie and feeding the ducks in the pond. Curdie drew his firearm, pointed it at Lund and verbally ordered Lund to raise his hands above his head. Lund heard an officer say "Get your hands up or I'll shoot you," placed his left hand on his head, and told Officer Curdie that he was physically unable to raise his right arm above his head. Lund held his right arm away from his body, as high as shoulder level, but could not reach his head. Officer Curdie ordered Lund to go into a kneeling position. Again, Lund told Curdie that he was physically unable to get into a kneeling position. Lund made no hostile or threatening movements or gestures while responding to Officer Curdie's commands, and was described by one witness as being very cooperative.

At the same time, Officers Max Nelson, Jeremy Crowther, Christopher Johnson and Jeremie Foreman had arrived at the scene, and Officers Nelson and Crowther drew their weapons and also held Lund at gunpoint. Officer Nelson told Officer Curdie that he wanted to have Officer Crowther place Lund under arrest. Disregarding this, Officer Curdie holstered his weapon, approached Lund from behind, pinned Lund's arms and shoulders in a "bear hug" embrace and knocked Lund to the ground. Lund's head hit the ground, sustained an abrasion to his forehead and broke his glasses. He was then handcuffed, lifted by the handcuffs, dragged across the sidewalk and placed roughly on a park bench. He then fell off the bench to the ground, in extreme pain caused by the handcuffs forcing his immobile right shoulder into posterior extension.

Lund was found to have no weapon of any kind on his person, and was subsequently released without charge. He was subsequently diagnosed in March of 2007 as having a large intracranial hematoma that more likely than not was the result of his head striking the ground on November 25, 2006, and required surgical treatment....

No one at the scene had observed Lund carrying, brandishing or threatening anyone with a firearm or other weapon in any fashion, and no weapon was found. [Footnote call to the footnote about gun rights that I quoted above; the footnote also discusses Utah statutes' general provision for licensed concealed carry. -EV] Moreover, Officer Curdie was not alone in facing the perceived threat of an unseen weapon. Other officers were present at the scene, two of whom were already holding Lund at gunpoint when Officer Curdie decided to tackle him to the ground. All of them were available to assist Curdie in taking Lund into custody. According to plaintiff Lund's factual allegations, here taken as true, Lund had complied with Officer Curdie's commands as best he could, explained why he could not fully comply and made no threatening movements or gestures towards Curdie or anyone else at the scene. Lund did not actively resist arrest; nor did he attempt to evade arrest by fleeing the scene.

By pointing their weapons at Lund, the officers made an immediate threat of use of deadly force -- which itself represents the use of force under the Fourth Amendment -- in seizing Lund and taking him into custody. See Holland ex rel. Officer Curdie decided to further escalate that use of force by physically taking Lund down to the ground, based upon facts from which Curdie inferred an immediate risk of injury -- factual allegations that Lund disputes. Based upon plaintiff Lund's version of the facts, and considering factors such as the severity of the alleged crime at issue, whether Lund posed an immediate threat to the safety of the officers and others, and whether Lund was actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight, Curdie's escalation of the use of force in taking Lund into custody was unreasonable and excessive....
 

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S.L., 2 officers not liable in '06 incident

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705268261,00.html

S.L., 2 officers not liable in '06 incident
Published: Friday, Dec. 5, 2008 12:41 a.m. MST

Salt Lake City and two of its police officers are not liable in the case of a disabled veteran who says officers used excessive force in arresting him two years ago at Liberty Park, according to a U.S. District Court decision filed Thursday.

However, U.S. District Judge Bruce Jenkins denied a motion for summary judgment for Salt Lake police officer Bryce Curdie, leaving him the only remaining defendant in the case.

Miles Lund, a 74-year-old Korean War-era veteran, was feeding the ducks at the park when officers arrested him Nov. 25, 2006. Because of a disability, Lund was not able to comply with an order to raise his arms and was tackled by police, according to the lawsuit.

Officers responded to Liberty Park after a man and his wife called 911 and said Lund had pointed a gun at them when their dog scared away some ducks.

An officer ordered Lund to put his hands behind his head. When Lund did not comply with the officer's order, Curdie rushed Lund and tackled him, grabbing him around the neck while two other officers grabbed his legs, according to the lawsuit. Lund suffered a severe head injury that required surgery.

No weapon was ever found and no charges were filed against Lund.

"It's just a beautifully reasoned decision," said Clark Newhall, Lund's attorney. "If the city intends to pursue this on appeal to the 10th Circuit, I don't see how they're going to get around this decision. I think the city is just wasting its money by trying to appeal."
Jenkins made no ruling as to the merits of the excessive-force claim. Lund is seeking $10 million in damages.
I don't get the "It's just a beautifully reasoned decision" stuff when the deep pockets just got let off. :?
 

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Liberty park is a drug park (full of pushers and users) and not a very safe place to be from my experience and that of relatives still in the area.
 

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That ruling reeks.
 

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"Officers responded to Liberty Park after a man and his wife called 911 and said Lund had pointed a gun at them when their dog scared away some ducks."

That obviously was not the case. I hope these people were charged with making a false report.
 

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That ruling reeks!
Opus X said:
"Officers responded to Liberty Park after a man and his wife called 911 and said Lund had pointed a gun at them when their dog scared away some ducks."

That obviously was not the case. I hope these people were charged with making a false report.
I agree with both posts! :shock:
 

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Opus X said:
"Officers responded to Liberty Park after a man and his wife called 911 and said Lund had pointed a gun at them when their dog scared away some ducks."

That obviously was not the case. I hope these people were charged with making a false report.
Somewhere those idiots live with the knowledge of what happened to this war vet....
 

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Re: UPDATE!! UPDATE!! UPDATE!!

jgullock said:
From Volokk at

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008 ... 1228842974

District Court Suggests Second Amendment May Protect Possession of Firearms in Public: From Lund v. Salt Lake City Corp., 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 98722 (D. Utah Dec. 4):

By itself, mere possession of a firearm in public is not unlawful and may well represent the exercise of a fundamental constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ....
Public open carry could be protected by the 2A. That's big, folks.

Seems like we're hearing more and more of these MWAG calls that escalate into drawn weapons and aggressive LEO behavior. Someone smarter than me has got to figure out how we can protect the cops while also protecting the innocent (even though the cops think, at the time, that the person is NOT innocent because mere mortals just cannot openly carry lethal firearms of death and puppy killings and blood-in-street makers).
 

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Re: S.L., 2 officers not liable in '06 incident

jgullock said:
I don't get the "It's just a beautifully reasoned decision" stuff when the deep pockets just got let off. :?
But the deep pockets weren't let off. The chief offending officer is very much still in the case, and, while he is still the named defendant, SLC is still very much on the hook. The way civil rights lawsuits work, they have to proceed against individuals, as cities & states generally enjoy sovereign immunity. If this fellow prevails against the officer, the city and its taxpayers will have to pay, as the departments almost always indemnify their officers. If they didn't, they would likely have a really hard time hiring anyone or dealing with the unions. The deep pockets are still very much in this one.
 

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Re: UPDATE!! UPDATE!! UPDATE!!

shamalama said:
Public open carry could be protected by the 2A. That's big, folks.

Seems like we're hearing more and more of these MWAG calls that escalate into drawn weapons and aggressive LEO behavior. Someone smarter than me has got to figure out how we can protect the cops while also protecting the innocent (even though the cops think, at the time, that the person is NOT innocent because mere mortals just cannot openly carry lethal firearms of death and puppy killings and blood-in-street makers).
I think we should start by looking at the statistics of all the police officer shootings by permit carrying citizens openly carying. Then we could decide what to do.
 

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Re: S.L., 2 officers not liable in '06 incident

kkennett said:
jgullock said:
I don't get the "It's just a beautifully reasoned decision" stuff when the deep pockets just got let off. :?
But the deep pockets weren't let off. The chief offending officer is very much still in the case, and, while he is still the named defendant, SLC is still very much on the hook. The way civil rights lawsuits work, they have to proceed against individuals, as cities & states generally enjoy sovereign immunity. If this fellow prevails against the officer, the city and its taxpayers will have to pay, as the departments almost always indemnify their officers. If they didn't, they would likely have a really hard time hiring anyone or dealing with the unions. The deep pockets are still very much in this one.
So even though the news says the judge declared they aren't SLC can still end up paying? (This is why I'm not a lawyer - my head hurts).

Salt Lake City and two of its police officers are not liable in the case of a disabled veteran who says officers used excessive force in arresting him two years ago at Liberty Park, according to a U.S. District Court decision filed Thursday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Liberty Park is renamed Loss of Liberty Park, and they are unveiling a statue of Mr. Lund face down in the goose poop at the unveiling ceremony, complete with armed officers dog-piling him.
 

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I can't even picture in my head a threatening looking 74 year old war veteran. I mean....was the guy built like Bolo Yeung or Hulk Hogan or something? I wonder if there was any other disciplinary action. It seems the community would be concerned that a disabled war vet got SERIOUSLY mistreated. I mean...I'm a disabled Vet. I wonder if something like that will happen to me some day. Eventually, there will come a time where I will probably need some type of waling assistance. That's just crappy to even think about. I can't wrap my head around it.
 
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