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Phil1979 said:
But anyway, glad your horror at Cain's abortion stance wouldn't automatically preclude you from possibly voting for him, as evidenced by your desire to learn more of where he stands on other issues.
It would preclude me from voting for him, not that the President can do anything about abortion anyway.
 

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mb90535im said:
Phil1979 said:
But anyway, glad your horror at Cain's abortion stance wouldn't automatically preclude you from possibly voting for him, as evidenced by your desire to learn more of where he stands on other issues.
It would preclude me from voting for him, not that the President can do anything about abortion anyway.
Thank you for your opinion.

In case someone doesn't see my previous post, I was addressing spector only.
 

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Herman will need to get out quickly and be on fire with a lot of organization behind him to have any chance.

Though this is far from scientific, at Zazzle.com if you do a search for "Palin 2012" you'll see there are over 9600 related products. A search for "Cain 2012" shows only 16.
 

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Phil1979 said:
The unborn child in those situations is still innocent and undeserving of the death penalty. There are people alive today who voice their thankfulness that even though that is how they were conceived, they were allowed to live.

But anyway, glad your horror at Cain's abortion stance wouldn't automatically preclude you from possibly voting for him, as evidenced by your desire to learn more of where he stands on other issues.
Regarding abortion: I am morally opposed but don't want the government involved. Especially the federal government. The thought of privacy invasions and people being imprisoned on anonymous claims -- who would complain about abortions if they were made illegal? -- scares me far more than people having abortions. Also, where would you draw the line between miscarriage and abortion, especially now that chemical abortion (RU-486) is a reality? I know a girl who got knocked up in HS and basically went on a two week coke and alcohol bender that ended in miscarriage. Is she guilty of murder? Manslaughter? What about the average woman that eats a crappy diet and doesn't avoid stress and has a miscarriage? Is she a murderer? Guilty of child neglect? How would you prove those things? I don't have those answers and I'm not about to lend my support to putting those people in a cage based on something so nebulous. I think we're going to have to accept the fact that if people want to terminate a pregnancy, they probably will. If there are moral consequences, let them carry that burden.

Regarding Cain's political involvement: I think anyone should have the ability to join a debate and have their voice heard. I also don't see abortion as a big issue . To the contrary, it's one of the most pointless and irrelevant issues in my mind. But people get worked up about it and I'm sure that a candidate with such a stance would have a VERY challenging time getting elected to President. For many, abortion is a make or break issue. Again, I think it's number #108,403 on the list of important issues, but many people will never vote for someone with Cain's stance on abortion and many people will never vote for someone who wants to remove all abortion restrictions. A good candidate will have to have a middle of the road policy on abortion to be electable, and that applies to candidates on the left and the right.

Many people fail to distinguish between a president's personal beliefs and his policy and also between government actions at the state and federal levels. If Cain's stance is that he is personally against abortion, that doesn't concern me. But if he uses that belief as a rationale for appointing nationalist judges to the supreme court, he will not get my vote.
 

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spector said:
Phil1979 said:
The unborn child in those situations is still innocent and undeserving of the death penalty. There are people alive today who voice their thankfulness that even though that is how they were conceived, they were allowed to live.

But anyway, glad your horror at Cain's abortion stance wouldn't automatically preclude you from possibly voting for him, as evidenced by your desire to learn more of where he stands on other issues.
Regarding abortion: I am morally opposed but don't want the government involved. Especially the federal government. The thought of privacy invasions and people being imprisoned on anonymous claims -- who would complain about abortions if they were made illegal? -- scares me far more than people having abortions. Also, where would you draw the line between miscarriage and abortion, especially now that chemical abortion (RU-486) is a reality? I know a girl who got knocked up in HS and basically went on a two week coke and alcohol bender that ended in miscarriage. Is she guilty of murder? Manslaughter? What about the average woman that eats a crappy diet and doesn't avoid stress and has a miscarriage? Is she a murderer? Guilty of child neglect? How would you prove those things? I don't have those answers and I'm not about to lend my support to putting those people in a cage based on something so nebulous. I think we're going to have to accept the fact that if people want to terminate a pregnancy, they probably will. If there are moral consequences, let them carry that burden.

Regarding Cain's political involvement: I think anyone should have the ability to join a debate and have their voice heard. I also don't see abortion as a big issue . To the contrary, it's one of the most pointless and irrelevant issues in my mind. But people get worked up about it and I'm sure that a candidate with such a stance would have a VERY challenging time getting elected to President. For many, abortion is a make or break issue. Again, I think it's number #108,403 on the list of important issues, but many people will never vote for someone with Cain's stance on abortion and many people will never vote for someone who wants to remove all abortion restrictions. A good candidate will have to have a middle of the road policy on abortion to be electable, and that applies to candidates on the left and the right.

Many people fail to distinguish between a president's personal beliefs and his policy and also between government actions at the state and federal levels. If Cain's stance is that he is personally against abortion, that doesn't concern me. But if he uses that belief as a rationale for appointing nationalist judges to the supreme court, he will not get my vote.
You bring up a lot of points, yet none of them negate the truth that I presented. The complicated nature of proving whether someone knows they are pregnant and deliberately kills their unborn child, and then determining what the punishment should be, is not the issue. The issue is the innocence of unborn children and whether or not they deserve the death penalty. If they don't, then laws can be passed to outlaw abortion mills. Is it not the government's responsibility to uphold basic moral law, such as the right to life of our most innocent citizens?

For a politician to state he morally opposes killing the innocent, but doesn't believe he should do anything about it is ludicrous. Politicians let their moral code influence far less weighter matters all the time.
 

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It IS the issue, because how can you pass an unenforceable law?

The whole abortion debate centers around when a fetus becomes a life. There are different opinions about it. Like I said, I don't know and I don't really care that much either. I don't personally like abortions so I don't encourage them or take part in them. But let's fix the monetary system, end all of our wars (drugs, terror, iraq, afghanistan, korea, poverty, obesity), return to federalism, end corporate and personal handouts and entitlements, stop big brother, get rid of the TSA, stop infringements on 2A, remove malum prohibitum laws from the books, make it more difficult for laws to get passed, reform the justice and corrections systems, get the insurance companies out of our medical system, substantially raise or eliminate most speed limits, lower the drinking age to 18, dismantle the department of education, and cure cancer and then we can talk about abortion. At the state level.

As for politicians making their moral beliefs law: I don't care if it's normal, it's not right. We a have a constitution partly for preventing emotions and passions from getting mixed into political action.
 

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spector said:
It IS the issue, because how can you pass an unenforceable law?

The whole abortion debate centers around when a fetus becomes a life. There are different opinions about it. Like I said, I don't know and I don't really care that much either. I don't personally like abortions so I don't encourage them or take part in them. But let's fix the monetary system, end all of our wars (drugs, terror, iraq, afghanistan, korea, poverty, obesity), return to federalism, end corporate and personal handouts and entitlements, stop big brother, get rid of the TSA, stop infringements on 2A, remove malum prohibitum laws from the books, make it more difficult for laws to get passed, reform the justice and corrections systems, get the insurance companies out of our medical system, substantially raise or eliminate most speed limits, lower the drinking age to 18, dismantle the department of education, and cure cancer and then we can talk about abortion. At the state level.

As for politicians making their moral beliefs law: I don't care if it's normal, it's not right. We a have a constitution partly for preventing emotions and passions from getting mixed into political action.
Are you claiming that NO laws could be passed that would lessen the number of abortions? Of course, no law prevents 100% what it prohibits. If that's the standard, then let's repeal our current laws against murder, stealing, etc...

Most medical doctors agree that life begins at conception. To the abortionists, this is not where the debate centers around at all. They could not care less about that. Their focus is on the mother's "right" to kill her child.
 

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I didn't know the incumbent God's term was about to expire!!
 

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gunsmoker said:
I like his ideas and values, but Herman Cain is utterly unqualified to run for the highest office in the land. He's never been a Senator, Representative, or Governor. His only "experience" in politics is a failed run for the U.S. Senate. Well, that and his radio show where he shares his opinions with us regularly.

Let him work his way to the top. Not try to jump strait to the top thru name recognition. I will not vote for him if there is any better-qualified conservative / libertarian alternative.
This.
 

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Mafuta54 said:
gunsmoker said:
I like his ideas and values, but Herman Cain is utterly unqualified to run for the highest office in the land. He's never been a Senator, Representative, or Governor. His only "experience" in politics is a failed run for the U.S. Senate. Well, that and his radio show where he shares his opinions with us regularly.

Let him work his way to the top. Not try to jump strait to the top thru name recognition. I will not vote for him if there is any better-qualified conservative / libertarian alternative.
And Obama's 140 days experience as a Senator makes him better qualified? :screwy:
To be fair he was a state senator and he also ran for the U.S. House but lost.
 

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Molon Labe said:
What does a Senator or Representative do that qualifies them to be President?
Our fore fathers were farmers, businessmen, etc...

I know that todays national issues are complicated, but, I do not think they are beyond the ability of a clear thinking individual who has the capability to think for him/herself.

In short, any INTELLIGENT thinker, anyone with the ability to reason, and who cares about and loves this country, can do the job.
 
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