Health Inspector

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Malum Prohibitum, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,041
    231
    63
  2. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

    3,458
    1
    36
    This belongs in the Exclusionary Rule thread of last week.

    What's the property owner to do? He could sue for trespass, but he has no damages to speak of. Assuming he wasn't committing a crime (illegal landfill? -- hard to know from the video), there's nothing to exclude in a criminal case.
     

  3. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

    2,139
    0
    0
    Ahhh, but Scalia says the fear of attorney's fees should be deterrent enough for a 4th A violation. I could see the attorney's fees fear in her face. :) Perhaps a criminal prosecution? Well, he can't even get the Sheriff who is there to do anything about it. :evil:
     
  4. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

    3,458
    1
    36
    Yeah, she was very afraid of attorney's fees, because she wouldn't pay them. The health department (or whoever she worked for) would.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,041
    231
    63
    jrm, anybody,

    What would have been the result if he had physically taken her by the arm and escorted her back to where the deputy was standing?

    Personally, I would have announced very clearly to the Deputy, the moment he arrived, that I did not want him entering my property, that I was prepared to use force in the form of self help if necessary to bar him from the property, but that I did not wish to hurt him, and request whether he was willing to use force to enter the property. (I can tell by his actions and demeanor on the video that he was not).

    If he said yes, then I would make sure it was caught on camera and continue to announce' loudly, that I wanted them to leave.

    If he said no, that woman would not have gotten around me to enter the property no matter how hard she tried.

    Any suggestions?
     
  6. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

    3,458
    1
    36
    Assuming IN allows citizen arrests (some states do not, I believe), I agree, and would go further to say that I would have arrested her.

    But, I think it's clear that the deputy was ready, the instant the property owner put a hand on the health inspector, to arrest the property owner for battery, false imprisonment, who knows what. Then, the SWAT team would have arrived and they would have turned the property upside down in a search incident to arrest (probably not lawful, but colorable enough to stay out of federal court). They would have confiscated all his guns and ammunition, kept his family album as kiddie porn (baby in a bathtub shots), etc. He would have had to spend thousands of dollars to undo the mess, but he would at some point get the mess mostly undone (although he could very well have lost his job and had other collateral damage from the arrest).

    All things considered, the property owner probably handled it as well as he could have. Any idea what happened?
     
  7. kkennett

    kkennett New Member

    2,139
    0
    0
    MP,

    I agree with jrm that anything remotely physical with the lady would have led, at least in the short term, to problems for our homeowner. The deputy clearly had sense enough to stay off the property. I think he at least had some training for himself, and figured he would let her hang herself with her own 'bylaws'. I might have suggested to the deputy that if no one was in a particular hurry, why doesn't he raise the DA on the radio and ask his opinion while we all hang out at the mailbox. Or ask for her supervisor. Or ask her to state her business on the camera, and to indicate which 'by-law' allowed her to be on the property. That way the tort gets prevented in the first place. If she refuses and just barges in anyway, she looks all that much worse. There quite clearly was not any real bodily threat here. Our homeowner gets a little wound up, which probably prevented him from thinking through these things.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,041
    231
    63
    I hope you don't think I need a "physical threat" to use reasonable force to keep you off my property.

    What is reasonable may depend upon how determined you are to get on my property. Stepping in front of you and saying, "Get back!" May be enough.

    The more relevant question is what legal authority she had to be there. I know there are some cases involving the question of the Fourth Amendment and inspections for health or other regulations. I am not sure how clear cut they are. I have not read them in at least 7 or 8 years. I just do not recall specifically, but I think they laid out a different standard than the typical law enforcement search rule.
     
  9. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

    3,458
    1
    36
    No, I don't. I think the property owner would have been justified in using a reasonable force to keep her off his property. And, if IN allows citizen arrests, I think he would have been justified in arresting her. But, I think it was clear that the reason the deputy was there was to take over the instant the homeowner touched the inspector.
     
  10. RIPNITZ

    RIPNITZ New Member

    73
    0
    0
    So by U.S. law governed by the Contstitution does that give me right to forbid anyone who may trespass on my property even if it's in a neighborhood where I do not have signs posted for no trespassing? Or do I have to put up signs on both sides of my property?

    Reason being, I live in a nice subdivision where unfortunately my house not only backs up to a road, it also connects to another road in front. So EVERY freaking kid in the neighborhood walks across my property to get to the other street. Therefore do I have to have signs posted on front and back stating "no trespassing" and if so, What action could I take as A U.S. Citizen to keep them from going through my yard? And I should also point out what really pisses me off is when they drive golf carts through the yard tearing up the grass.

    Now Im sure I couldnt and probably wouldnt shoot them, but what actions could I take upon them? Destruction of Property? Or Destruction of private property? Or would I have to have signs posted.

    thanks in advance,
    Brian :D
     
  11. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    63,041
    231
    63
    Yeah, probably not. Ever thought about a fence?
     
  12. RIPNITZ

    RIPNITZ New Member

    73
    0
    0
    Well its difficult to explain. Yes I have a 6 and a half foot privacy fence but it mainly surrounds part of the back yard. Although there is still a little room for the kids to squeeze through. Anough room a a golf cart anyway. No more than that. Im about ready to move anyhow, I'd like to get closer to the river. In columbia county though, Will NEVER move bcak to richmond county. You can get shot to easily over there.
     
  13. Foul

    Foul New Member

    780
    0
    0

    How about...let the bodies hit the floor.
     
  14. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

    1,530
    0
    36
    Anybody know if the property owner actually sued, and if so, what the result was?
     
  15. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    5,798
    0
    0
    Are punji pits out of the question?

    :lol:

    Edited to add:
    Seems to me like open carrying on his property would have given that lady significantly more pause.

    Also, the second that lady made a move to get past me she would have been on the ground with the wind knocked out of her.
     
  16. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

    8,460
    5
    38
    I was just thinking of an interesting way to handle that situation. Call 911 about a trespasser.

    It would really only be interesting if either the call went out to the LEO already there, or another was timely dispatched to help the homeowner.
     
  17. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

    5,798
    0
    0
    Or call in a shooting.

    ...A shooting that is about to happen. :wink:

    Make that call in front of the lady and see if she steps past that line.