HB 29

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by geaux_tigers, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    HB 29 is a bill to prohibit LEOs from using "electroshock devices".

    Just wondering what you guys think about this idea (esp. any LEOs or ex-LEOs). To me it sounds like a bad idea rooted in media-driven hysteria.

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2005_06/sum/hb29.htm
     
  2. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    I think tasers are one of the most useful tools on the cop's belt these days.

    Why take away their ability to decisively take down a suspect outside of contact distance with non-lethal force?
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I believe they are over used. Way overused.


    Does that mean I want them taken away from police officers or their use prohibited altogther? No.

    This bill is going nowhere. Did you notice the sponsors?
     
  4. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    Malum, you may have a point about over use. I seem to remember a case in Florida where some kid was tasered. It seems to me that sort of thing should be addressed in a continum of force policy and violators should be reprimanded.

    It just infuriates me when I see stuff like this. It makes me question the thought process of politicians that believe this is an appropriate way to address a problem.
     
  5. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    This was probably a knee jerk reaction to the Florida cases.

    If you have LEO's tazing children and senior citizens and the Chief says no rule was violated, legislators tend to take over. Especially when the head of the school board sends a letter to that chief asking him to tell is officers to refrain from tazing elementary school students.

    Also, all the testing done on the taser is to healthy adults, but in practice LEO's are going to use them on people that may have heart or mental conditions due to age or drugs, the result is unknown. A little more discresion, or at least an understanding that tazing could cause medical problems would be a great help.
     
  6. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    I just hate to see a tool has a lot of positive applications get shelved. Take away the taser and, seems to me, you either have to move up to a gun or close with the subject go to a baton.

    Seems like legistators could doing some less drastic. Maybe force a state wide force continuum if you are afraid that individual jusidictions can't be trusted.
     
  7. thebugman

    thebugman New Member

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    The parents of the guy who died here in Gwinnett after being tazered were customers of mine. Really wierd when I realized why so many cards were in the living room. I hate that they no longer have their son, but I don't think the tazer is the issue any more than the parents are to blame.
     
  8. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    I don't mean to be morbid, but what has the reason given for his death? Did he have a heart attack or something of that nature?
     
  9. thebugman

    thebugman New Member

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    In the past two years, five people in Georgia have died after being shocked with Tasers by law officers. Two Gwinnett County inmates died in a nine-month period after scuffles with deputies and Taser shocks.

    Ray Charles Austin, 25, died in September 2003 after he was stunned three times, given psychotropic drugs, punched and placed in a restraint chair.

    Last May, Frederick Williams, 31, died after he was shocked five times in a tussle with five deputies.

    Both men died of heart attacks, according to the county medical examiner.

    All the deputies were cleared of wrongdoing, though District Attorney Danny Porter said last week he was considering filing criminal charges in the Williams case and was still investigating.

    "The family is confused about the status of the case," said Melvin Johnson, the Williams family's attorney, who attended the forum with Williams' widow, Yanga Williams.

    Williams said she thought the forum was beneficial, though she said she would like to have seen it better attended. About 20 people in
    addition to the panelists attended the forum.

    Having more proponents of the devices' use on hand would be helpful, Johnson said.

    Audience member Todd Pell, 34, of Buford drew gasps from the crowd when he asserted that the Gwinnett Sheriff's Department has used electric shock — first used by the Nazis in 1938, he said —
    as a method of torture since 1999.
     
  10. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    Maybe I'm jumping off the plank here, but I don't believe these devices help LEO. I believe it raises the possibility of to many questions of which to use. When are we going to draw the line with a criminal. As I have always thought once a criminal decides to commit a crime, he looses all rights. This country needs to wake up and realize if you deal with crime in the way crime deals your deck of cards, the BG may think differently after seeing the other BG's fate. May take time but they will, I believe.

    I think LEO shouldnt even worry about carrying tasers. To many options for the officer to think of in the moment, and the BG knows he can push it even harder cause they have the taser and the cop may use that before moving to a gun. But of course I believe stronger force is needed when dealing with a criminal.

    Not to mention I can see part of the anti crowd screaming to rid cops of guns and give them tasers, of course after they ban all guns from citizens!

    Just my thoughts....
     
  11. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    Like I mentioned up above, I am only throwing this thought out there.
     
  12. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    thebugman, thanks for posting that info. Sounds like there be more to what's going on in Gwinnett than simply whether are not tasers should be available to LEOs. :shock:
     
  13. geaux_tigers

    geaux_tigers Member

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    Understood and appreciated. Most of what I have heard has been very favorable so I am definitely interested in hearing what others think.

    To address the issue of LEOs having too many options, I don't neccessarily see the number of options as a problem. In my humble opinion, I think that policy/training plays a huge roll.

    What if LEOs keeps a taser in their car for use when the situation warrants. If it is a fast moving situation where split second life or death decisions are require the taser isn't in the picture. Say you get a call with some mentally unstable guy with a bat is causing a disturbance; if no one is in immediate danger of having their head bashed in, I think having a taser in the car would allow the officer to take the guy into custody without putting anyone, officer or perp, in danger of losing their life.

    I'm not very keen on the idea of losing all of my rights because they suspect I have have done something.
     
  14. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    That is a pretty good idea. They keep shotguns in the car for situations that might need it.

    It still boils down to each departments policy, which I think is a MAJOR cause of the problem. Which I think is Taser Inc's fault and problem too.

    Taser Inc. would do better getting legislators to limit the acceptable use of Tasers and the number of shocks allowed per person. Allowing the fringe officers taze someone 5 times and they die, is detremental to all parties. Tazer's product is banned in the state entirely which does not help LEO's and really hurts Taser Inc. In situations were a Taser would really help its use is not availible and a firearm might have to be used, which would be far worse for the person shot with the firearm than the taser.
     
  15. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    I like leaving in the car idea as the shotgun is kept also in the car. And you have a good point about a known mentally instable person having an episode. They dont deserve to be shot or anyhting. Gunstar also brought up very good points in how many times you shold shock a person. Of course I would imagine this could bring up a whole set of other decisions cause the bigger the person I would imagine they could withstand more hits. LEO definitely has some hard decisions to make in the blink of an eye.

    I agree with the thoughts of them having them, but man it seems like they are causing some headaches. I guess its one of those middle ground things.
     
  16. thebugman

    thebugman New Member

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    Something like until their blood boils, or they loose their bodily functions. :lol: