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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, some background. I still carry and shoot my first handgun--the original Ruger LC9, which is DAO and many, many people complain about the trigger. Previously, my experience with guns was rifles and shotguns. It was my only handgun for a few years until I acquired more.

I routinely shoot my LC9, a 9mm 1911, and a Polymer 80 9mm that is essentially a non-Glock Glock 17. I also have a S&W Model 12, LCP, and EZ Shield .380.

No matter what I do, I am most inaccurate with the Polymer 80 followed by the EZ Shield. The EZ Shield is not striker-fired, but I seem to have a similar problem with it. I am consistently hitting high and to the left of the point of aim. I am right handed. I am most accurate with the 1911 followed by the LC9. I haven't shot the revolver or LCP recently enough rate them, but I don't remember being laughably off target.

Today for example, I was shooting the Polymer 80 consistently off target but with good groups. I would immediately switch to the LC9 and have much better accuracy. I even brought the target to 5 yards, closed one eye, and took careful, controlled shots at the bullseye, and not a single one hit anywhere on an 8-inch Splatterbusrt target. I then used the same target and distance, and hit the bullseye or 10 ring ring with each shot using the LC9. It was so horribly off that I asked a guy who was shooting a Glock 19 to take a few shots with my gun to make sure it was just me and not the gun (he hit lower and to the right, but much, much closer the bullseye). When shooting seated with an ammo box for a rest, I hit down and to the left with the Polymer 80 but center and low with the LC9.

I haven't shot the EZ Shield recently, but the last time I shot it, I had to adjust the windage to the right in order to center my shots. In the past, I have adjusted the windage all the way to the right on the Polymer 80 just to get close to my usual accuracy.

I have done dry fire training with the Polymer 80 using a penny to detect flinching. Honestly, the LC9 has more felt recoil, and I don't detect any flinching. Usually, if I hit to the left of the target with the LC9, it is when I practice rapid shooting, and I definitely think the long trigger affects that.

Also, to complicate things, I wear progressive lenses. I used to not have a problem seeing the front site, but currently, on all my guns, I cannot focus on the front site. My site picture is a blurry dot over either a blurry target, or what looks like a double target. I have found that just point-shooting with the LC9 has improved my groups, but not with the Polymer 80. I feel like with my current eyes, hitting somewhere on an 8-inch target should be considered good, but that was not easily happening with the Polymer 80.

I figure there must be some ingrained muscle memory with pulling a long DAO trigger for so many years, yet I don't have a problem with a single action 1911 or revolver. I'm not sure if I can train my self out of this, and if I do, will it affect my accuracy with my EDC? Does anyone have any advice?
 

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I have Parkinson’s and can't use sights and have not been able to for many years now. I shoot accurately and with tight groups as Gunsmoker has actually witnessed. At the onset I started training my NPA. It was a hard road and very frustrating at first to deal with and overcome the problems associated with Parkinson’s. I don't know what actual grip you use but an adjustment in how you actualy grip the firearm may help. To start with the off hand grip should be 4 fingers over the three of you primary hand under the trigger guard. The thumb of your off hand should be on the same side of the gun as your palm. Point your thumb straight down the frame above the trigger guard. You can point that thumb easier than you can point the gun. Your other thumb should rest on top of your point thumb. There is no magic to point shooting. It's all in training and how often you train to only point shoot at the start. Try starting at 3 yards until you learn how each gun points. Do not use your sights at all while training to point shoot. I have had people pick it up in a matter of minutes and do quite well as first timers on point shooting.

From low ready look at the point of the target where you want to land the shot. Raise your firearm as if to use the sights but instead point your off hand thumb at the spot you are looking at without looking at the gun or your thumb. Check how close your shot lands to where you are looking. Keep practicing this until your shots are consistent where you want them to land. I can most of the time get a 2 to 4 inch group at 15 yards. then there are times it is much worse as well but still do not miss the target.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Seajay,
Thanks for the advice. I do grip as you describe, but I have been point shooting with my LC9 a different way--essentially sighting down the slide using a method at a class I attended. I'll try using the thumb method and starting with a closer target.

It feels like having to learn to ride a bicycle again after doing it for years.
 

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Sight something with your thumb, then without moving your hands look down your sights to see how close you are. Never practiced it, just thought of it.
 

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Wait until you get the thumb pointing down really well. Then try it one handed without the thumb. You can use the the second knuckle of your index finger if you're putting the proper amount of finget on the trigger. The difference will be in your POA with your knuckle. You have to point your knuckle beside where you intend to place the shot.
 
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My understanding is that you don't sight down anything when point shooting. It's like pointing your finger, you don't aim down your finger to point at something. The gun becomes your finger, some pistols point more naturally than others.

I do like Seajay's method, it obviously works for him. I never really practice point shooting myself, I am just going off memory from an old Elmer Keith article. It was about wheel guns though.
 

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Usually left and up is something like tightening your grip during the shooting process if you are a right handed shooter. That and pushing the trigger. I would redouble my effort to get a solid high tang grip with with the thumbs from @seejay advice. Next experiment adding a little more trigger finger. I suspect you are using the very tip of the pad of your finger. I've found that iit's easier to pull the Glock-style staged trigger straight back a little closer to the joint. Worth a shot to try.
 

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I never really practice point shooting myself, I am just going off memory from an old Elmer Keith article. It was about wheel guns though.
As a younger man, I read that Elmer, Keith article, and spent probably 30,000 rounds or more learning how to point shoot. I got so that I could put all six from my model 66 revolver into a pie plate at 10 yards without using the sites. I was able to do that for almost 30 years. However, I can’t practice it now at an inside range.

All my life I’ve considered a 4 inch or snubby Smith and Wesson K frame revolver as an extension of my finger. I was quite good at using one through my lifetime.
 
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Look at point shooting like you're playing a video game. It's just hands coordinating with the eyes, commonly called hand eye coordination. Just like a video game you have to get your hand movements in sync with what your eyes are doing the same will also apply to anything that requires hands and eyes to work together for a common goal.
 

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Do you mean you can't do it now because of indoor range rules but could do it if you were at an outdoor range?
both kind of. The indoor ranges that I’ve experienced frowned upon someone that is pulling a revolver, and just point shooting. They truly don’t appreciate that at all. And physically, I probably can’t do it anymore anyway. I have not practiced it in 20 years perhaps.
 

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Most ranges indoor or outdoor prohibit drawing from a holster without specific approval of the RSO. Most RSOs have to know you very well before even considering giving the nod to draw. Even then it would hinge on the number and quality of other shooters on the range at the time. the monkey see monkey do seems to be the general rule of the majority of shooters at any given point in time.
 

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Most ranges indoor or outdoor prohibit drawing from a holster without specific approval of the RSO. Most RSOs have to know you very well before even considering giving the nod to draw.
The specific range at which I am a member allows me to draw from holster. However, they frown pie plates being casually used as targets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Since you have trouble seeing the sights, have you considered transitioning to a red dot sight?
It is something that I have just started considering, but currently, I'm pretty adequate point shooting with my EDC LC9. Also, my job is in flux right now, so I am delaying major purchases and expenditures for the time being. With the way I currently conceal, I believe the addition of a micro red dot could be quite an adjustment, but I could really see the benefit for a nightstand gun.
 

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I would guess a history of litter on the range. But how is a paper plate any different than any other target I don't get it.
There is a difference in a "pie plate" and a "paper plate". A pie plate is made from aluminum. When shot it leaves metal flakes behind. A paper plate is made from obviously paper as the name implies. There for a while people were shooting pie plates for the sound they could hear when they hit it. Can't really hear a sound from shooting a paper plate. The pie plates messed up the range and was impossible to separate the aluminum from the lead for recycle. Lead recycle would reject the lead if it had the aluminum mixes in. The reverse is true for the aluminum recycle. This is because of the melt point of both metals being very close to the same temp making it real expensive to separate then from each other.
 

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Seems it would be simple to separate the two based on simple weight. A bit of time after melt would let the much lighter aluminum float to the top and lead go to the bottom.

Nemo
 
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