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Heard from several at the gun show this weekend in Savannah that Chatham county is still taking 5-7 months to issue a GWL. 75-120 days on renewals. All surrounding counties are inside 14 days. Any suggestions on addressing the issue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
GAGunOwner said:
That is an option. I'm ready to move 10 miles west into the next county just for the school system alone. However, that doesn't do much to address the issue.

I didn't want to turn this into a rant so I'll hold here. :cantsay:
 

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Contact the probate court?
Contact your state rep. and senator?
Contact GCO?
Sue the probate court?
 

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jwhunt said:
Heard from several at the gun show this weekend in Savannah that Chatham county is still taking 5-7 months to issue a GWL. 75-120 days on renewals. All surrounding counties are inside 14 days. Any suggestions on addressing the issue?
Similiar situation in DeKalb, although not quite as long. DeKalb claims the mental health background check from the Georgia Department of Human Resources is the hold-up, and cites Moore v. Cranford as their defense for failure to issue within O.C.G.A. 16-11-129 guidelines.

G.C.O. is either going to have to sue the DeKalb County Probate Court for violating the current law, remove Georgia counties' discretion to request a mental health background check (not going to happen since the Tucson shooting), or mandate a legal time limit for the DHR to respond to the Probate Court's request. However, we are first focusing our DeKalb County efforts on removing the DeKalb County Police Department's patently illegal firearms appointment requirement.

It would be useful if you could determine what justification Chatham county is using for its refusal to issue within O.G.C.A. guidelines - if it's the mental health background check, that gives us more justification to seek legislative relief from the General Assembly.

PM me if you can find out . . . thanks, Teeter
 

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I have fought/argued and even spent time on the phone with the Sheriff and Chief Deputy and they do not care. The hold up IS at the Sheriff's office , they KNOW it and will do nothing about it. I have talked to both the GBI and the FBI and their longest turn around (on the 44 people I have worked with) on background checks has been 4 days. The clerk mails in batches every week. (so she saves tax dollars on postage and court payroll time)

The processing clerk at the Sheriff's Office does whatever she wants/when she feels like it and Al St. Lawrence could care less. She is STILL convinced she has 60 days to run the background. To set her straight I HAND delivered a copy to her and she said she didn't care and trashed it right in front of me. So short of voting the Sheriff out...we are screwed. Anyone actually suing would waste time and money because when the suit hit..the Sheriff would make his lazy a$$ clerk process THAT one and mail it and the plaintiff would have no standing. :bsflag:
 

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I posted the probate court email info in the thread at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=53416 that discussed their website saying to give them 4-5 months. I sent them a email a couple weeks back and they replied they were understaffed and this was the cause of the delays. They stated they would look into changing the website to conform with the law, but so far nothing.

Chatham Co. also ask for a SSN and even hints it's required to get a GWL (they use to come out and say if you didn't supply it, you wouldn't get a permit).

A while back Teeter was looking for people applying for a GWL in Savannah for a possible case, but no one took him up on it. I understand most here already have their GWL before finding GPDO and it's harder to find new applicants from members because of this. Perhaps the best bet to track and do something about the problem would be to recruit people thinking of applying for a GWL from gun shops, ranges and gun shows before they actually apply. This way you could track the actual process of new applicants, were the problems are and where the laws are being ignored. The same advise for those in Dekalb county.
 

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phantoms said:
A while back Teeter was looking for people applying for a GWL in Savannah for a possible case, but no one took him up on it.
Actually, I was looking for a plaintiff to file suit against the DeKalb County Police Department to force them to abandon their illegal 'fingerprinting appointment' requirement (for only GWL applicants, by the way . . . if you're a stripper, bartender, wrecker operator, etc., you just walk right in and get printed). I have a great plaintiff lined up, but his GWL doesn't expire until May. So we're going to try one-last-time to convince DKPD that they're holding a losing hand on this one.

As far as Chatham County, there are two options - (1) sue, and win, and/or (2) get the General Assembly to take the GWL issuance process away from the county probate courts. I very much favor (2).

I'll be talking to JRM this coming week about our DeKalb County situation and bring Chatham to his attention.
 

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It's a state permit right? At some point, shouldn't a suit be filed with the state? Deligating a state permit process to the counties doesn't seem to be working.
 

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The judicial branch should not be issuing licenses. The only reason they do is because of racism. The executive branch should be the ones issuing licenses, in my opinion a non-LE part of the executive branch.

The GWL is a state license. Local governments should not be issuing state licenses. DeKalb County doesn't issue GA DLs so why GWLs?
 

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GAGunOwner said:
The judicial branch should not be issuing licenses. The only reason they do is because of racism. The executive branch should be the ones issuing licenses, in my opinion a non-LE part of the executive branch.

The GWL is a state license. Local governments should not be issuing state licenses. DeKalb County doesn't issue GA DLs so why GWLs?
Agreed! The antics of one county should not affect my ability to carry (or drive) in another county. I have a vacation planned in a several weeks and because of the games played in my county I probably will not be able to carry should we need to stop to eat or take a bathroom break. I'll have to check the details of the other state for not having a permit. This isn't a one county only problem, it's a state problem and needs to be handled at the state level.
 

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Taurus92 said:
It's a state permit right? At some point, shouldn't a suit be filed with the state?
Yes, after you lose in Superior Court and then lose your appeal in Appeals Court. Right now - unfortunately - it's still a county-by-county fight.

GAGunOwner said:
The GWL is a state license. Local governments should not be issuing state licenses.
Either S.B. 308 or S.B. 291, can't remember which, contained language to centralize issuance of GWLs under the Georgia Secretary of State's office, thus eliminating all the petty politics of county LEOs and probate courts. It was roundly opposed by most of G.C.O. - those that live in counties that issue in three weeks - and by most of the General Assembly. I don't know why, other than the Probate Courts wanted to keep the GWL application revenue stream coming in and not surrender any of their turf to the state. At any rate, it was DOA at the General Assembly and was removed from the bill.

At some point, the time will be right to revisit this issue.
 

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Teeter said:
Either S.B. 308 or S.B. 291, can't remember which, contained language to centralize issuance of GWLs under the Georgia Secretary of State's office, thus eliminating all the petty politics of county LEOs and probate courts. It was roundly opposed by most of G.C.O. - those that live in counties that issue in three weeks - and by most of the General Assembly. I don't know why, other than the Probate Courts wanted to keep the GWL application revenue stream coming in and not surrender any of their turf to the state. At any rate, it was DOA at the General Assembly and was removed from the bill.

At some point, the time will be right to revisit this issue.
SB308 did at one point, but it didn't make the final bill. Given that Fulton is running 10-30 days now, there isn't going to be much support for taking the process out of the probate courts to fix DeKalb and Chatham issues.

For fingerprinting, I wonder how much support we could get for GAPS in probate or just GAPS at any private place up the road.

For any other probate issues, I think the fix could start with Utah style language, clarifying of "day" to mean "calendar day", assigning in law a maximum time for the entire issuance process (including making available for pickup or delivery to the post office or applicant), and assign penalties to the probate court for not making the dates.
45_Fan's offering said:
If no disqualifying information is found about the applicant within the specified time for issuance and delivery, then the license must be issued and delivered. If disqualifying information is found about the applicant after issuance, then the license shall be revoked. By January 1, 2012, the maximum time to issue and deliver a license must be less than 30 calendar days from the submission of the initial application. By January 1, 2013, the maximum time to issue and deliver a license must be less than 15 calendar days from the submission of the initial application to the issuance of the license. The applicant shall have the option at the time of application to request that an issued license be made available for pickup or be mailed. The probate court has the option to offer and arrange an alternate method of delivery so long as delivery occurs prior to the last specified calendar day. The date of delivery shall be determined by the date of the postmark, date of notification of the availability of the license at the probate court for pickup by the applicant, or date of the personal delivery of the license to the applicant by an agent of the probate court. The probate shall refund any license fees to the applicant if the date of delivery of a license exceeds the specified maximum number of calendar days since application. This refund shall not be made in lieu of the issuance and delivery of a license, but shall be delivered with the newly issued license.
Part of makes the problem chronic and recurring in some locations is standing. I only have standing once the probate court is past due, but the minute I have my license, then I have no standing -- until I repeat the process in 5 years. If the fees become refundable for late licenses, then an individual has a token of redress. Perhaps some of the legal types out there would have a suggestion that would allow a class-action, punitive damages, or have some other mechanism that could have more leverage than a once every 5-years writ.
 

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Teeter said:
Actually, I was looking for a plaintiff to file suit against the DeKalb County Police Department to force them to abandon their illegal 'fingerprinting appointment' requirement (for only GWL applicants, by the way . . . if you're a stripper, bartender, wrecker operator, etc., you just walk right in and get printed). I have a great plaintiff lined up, but his GWL doesn't expire until May. So we're going to try one-last-time to convince DKPD that they're holding a losing hand on this one.

As far as Chatham County, there are two options - (1) sue, and win, and/or (2) get the General Assembly to take the GWL issuance process away from the county probate courts. I very much favor (2).

I'll be talking to JRM this coming week about our DeKalb County situation and bring Chatham to his attention.
Sorry Teeter, I meant to say Mathar was looking for people applying for a GWL in Chatham, not you. From the post at http://georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=46511&p=650150
 

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I just wanted to post that they updated the website to remove the wait 4 or 5 months for permits (do not know if they're issuing them faster yet).
5. The permits are promptly issued upon receipt of the background check from the Chatham County Sheriff's Dept. The permit is valid for five (5) years.
My thanks to all that contacted/emailed them requesting that the website be changed to conform with the law.
 

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jwhunt said:
Heard from several at the gun show this weekend in Savannah that Chatham county is still taking 5-7 months to issue a GWL. 75-120 days on renewals.
I know the feeling, I'm in Dekalb and my License expires next May. I feel like calling ch5 and whistle blowing about how the fingerprinting process is illegal in Dekalb and showing dekalb up against the surrounding counties. Maybe a little unwanted news coverage can start the ball to rolling in dekalb. I think I'll just hold out until 2012 when my GWL expires. I see the headline now on ch 5 "Dekalb discriminates against people seeking Pistol permits"
 

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I just received a letter today from the Clayton County Probate Court saying that my application has been suspended due to "the Court not receiving the background checks from all of the agencies required to make a report to the judge within the 30 days as required under the statute." I filed my application on March 17, 2011. I went to the Sheriff's office today, paid for and received a background check, and supplied it to the Probate Court Division. I was informed that this will not suffice. At this time I have 30 days to resolve a problem that I can't resolve or my application will be denied. I am one of approximately 135 applicants, here in Clayton County, who's background checks were requested over 30 days ago and have not yet been received from the Sheriff's office.
 

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MsDeborah said:
I just received a letter today from the Clayton County Probate Court saying that my application has been suspended due to "the Court not receiving the background checks from all of the agencies required to make a report to the judge within the 30 days as required under the statute."
Welcome MsDeborah. I haven't heard that one before.
 
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