Guns to Mexico: NRA Mythology Cannot Survive Facts

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Malum Prohibitum, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  2. rankhornjp

    rankhornjp Active Member

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    The corrupt government and drug cartels would disappear overnight.....if they just didn't have the guns. :screwy: :roll:
     

  3. BSCLibertarian

    BSCLibertarian I'm kind of a big deal

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    IF all this was true (and I have considered the source - hence the IF) would it not lend more credence to the argument, or demand, that we SECURE the border?!?! Maybe that's just the way I think...... :screwy:
     
  4. Archangel

    Archangel Moderator Staff Member

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    One would think....
     
  5. fiwit

    fiwit New Member

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    What are y'all doing THINKING? Today's brave new world is all about FEELING. Brains are too important to waste on something as mundane as THINKING -- haven't you learned that yet?
     
  6. BSCLibertarian

    BSCLibertarian I'm kind of a big deal

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    You are correct....at least I FEEL like you are correct. (how am I doing?)
     
  7. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    Of course, David Codrea wrote an examiner article about it. And, of course, he has some good points.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-n ... om-the-u-s

    Click on the link for the rest of the article.
     
  8. GotUrBack

    GotUrBack New Member

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    There it is in black and white. No need to delve any further. Problem solved! :screwy: :screwy:
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I think strong gun laws (basically, banning guns and confiscating all those known to exist in civilian hands) would have an effect on crime.
    Crime would go up, as more people would be menaced and attacked by criminals.
    Even if fewer of the criminals are armed with guns.
    The criminals would have some guns, but a lot of knives, clubs, and other weapons.
    And criminals would rule the streets, and nobody could feel safe in their own homes.
    New York is this way. Lots of crime, but considerably less gun crime than Atlanta. More stabbings, more baseball bats and tire irons used as weapons. Chains and icepicks, etc.
    Even if you can't literally take all the guns off the streets, if you reduce the number of guns in civilian hands, the criminals will have trouble obtaining them. Fewer guns on the 'black maret' means those guns that DO make it into the criminal pipeline will be expensive. Some thugs would not pay the money or go through the effort of locating and buying one, if handguns became as hard to find and hand grenades out on the street.

    But we have to ask, is it worth it? Even if we could save lives by banning guns (on the theory that criminals will kill fewer innocent people if most of them carried blunt or edged weapons instead), what about freedom?
    Nobody ever said that a free society was the safest one to live in. Freedom always involves the risk of making a bad choice or being hurt by somebody else's bad choice.
     
  10. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    More from Codrea's article.
     
  11. JDcollins78

    JDcollins78 New Member

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    It is far better to have too much liberty than too little. I would rather everyone have guns so that I could exercise my RIGHT to defend myself from those few (statistically speaking) dangerous criminals rather than "no one" have guns and be at the mercy of the government and those same few dangerous criminals.

    How exactly would one go about confiscating guns from the criminal?
     
  12. Viking

    Viking New Member

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    The Huffington Post . . . no wonder.
     
  13. spector

    spector New Member

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    Securing the borders* will do NOTHING so long as the huge profit incentives exist for drug cartels. As long as profits on drugs remain exorbitantly high because of prohibition, drug gangs will protect their territory, their goods, and their lives as violently as necessary. Without ending the drug war, everything else is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

    *Securing the border is a fool's errand in and of itself, as any barrier we can feasibly create will be easily penetrable by those who desire to come to this country. Penn & Teller did a great BS! about this, showing that teams of two guys with simple tools were able to go over, under, and through the fence (of the type being proposed to run the whole border) in less than 5 minutes. The threat of being shot will not stop drug dealers, illegal immigrants, terrorists or anyone else trying to get into this country unaccounted for. The only way to prevent it will be to reduce the incentives to come here, which means reducing the welfare state and ending the drug war, among other things.
     
  14. BSCLibertarian

    BSCLibertarian I'm kind of a big deal

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    You'll get no argument from me on any of your points. I was saying that if it was true that Americans were smuggling thousands of guns across the border, then wouldn't securing the border stop this? Meaning securing it going both ways......it was more of a smart *** comment than a real idea.....you are correct on both the drug war statement as well as the reducing the incentive to come here illegally (i.e. welfare state)...why not make it easier to come here legally? Or temporarily? Temporary workers would have to pay taxes etc. but not be allowed to vote....others much smarter than I can figure out the logistics of how you make it work.....I know, I know the devil is in the details....

    All that said, will the type of fence being proposed stop everyone? Of course not but there a lots of ways to secure the border through technology and manpower but, like most things, the profit is not in the cure but rather the treatment (just like the "war on drugs"). Rather than sending our brave men and women all over the world to "spread democracy" (often to people who are uninterested in participating in their own "liberation"), perhaps those resources could be better used here at home....
     
  15. slammy

    slammy New Member

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    Nobody asked this question...If the average Mexican citizen had the right to own firearms would the cartels be as strong and operate with the impunity they seem to enjoy today? I wonder why they don't cross the Rio Grande and take over Texas.
     
  16. spector

    spector New Member

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    The answer to your question is to look at the power gangs have in US cities -- even those with good, lax gun laws. The war on drugs is the problem, and we can make the cartels disappear overnight by legalizing, regulating, and legitimizing the products of their trade.

    While strong firearms rights may help individuals protect themselves against some spillover gang violence, wouldn't it be better to remove the threat altogether?
     
  17. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/index.php/c ... artels-own