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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another attack in a Disarmed Victim Zone, going on right now.

BAILEY, Colorado (AP) -- Authorities say an adult gunman is holding at least four hostages at a high school.

Officials evacuated a high school in this Colorado mountain town and sent a bomb squad and a SWAT team Wednesday after receiving reports that several shots had been fired, a sheriff's spokeswoman said.

There were no immediate reports of any injuries.

Jan Howard, a secretary to the superintendent of schools, said students from Platte Canyon High School and the nearby middle school in Bailey were being taken to a safe location.

Howard said the evacuation came after a loud noise was heard, but "I don't know what the noise was."

"We have some information that several shots have been fired," sheriff's spokeswoman Jacki Kelley said.

The town is 35 miles southwest of Denver
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
According to their local news "live video", The school is on lockdown. All the kids are still in the school.

With a 35yr old man who has already fired shots, holding hostages.
 

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Two dead after SWAT rushed in. Hostage taker shot a girl, then turned gun on himself. Too bad someone in the school didn't have an opportunity to end this before one of the kids got shot.

We need to allow guns on shcool grounds to protect the children from crimes like this. Have they had problems with this method in Israel?
 

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But but but, that's a GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONE!

They need to increase the radius from 1000 feet to 2000 feet so this type of tragedy won't happen again.
 

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Actually, from what I read earlier today, he did negotiate for a while, and ended up releasing 4 of the 6 hostages throughout the day.

But then he cut off all contact with the negotiating team and that is what prompted the decision to send the team in..
 

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The scene commander hinted that the crazy person was not treating the girls well and that was part of his reason for storming in.
 

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How many of these is it going to take before the men in these situations start jumping into the fight the minute this starts to happen?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming these particular men for leaving. Nobody knows what will happen in a situation like this and doing what the nutbag says to do might seem at the time like the best way to have a chance of everyone being released unhurt.

But now that this is happened twice in a week, I'm thinking if I were a younger guy in class I don't think I'd just walk out and leave the ladies behind like that at this point. We'd have to all go down fighting the bastard.

Just like most Americans won't let someone hijack a plane now.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I walked out and left all of my famale classmates behind and then one of these incidents happened and the ladies got raped/killed.

One more reason to allow teachers to be armed in schools, as far as I'm concerned. I'd feel better if a few of the teachers and/or the principle in my kid's school were trained and armed.
 

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Guns In Schools

What is the reason you want to allow adults in school to be able to carry defensive guns, although with "training" ? Is there any "training" required to carry a gun at McDonald's? Or inside a shopping mall full of teenagers? Why have "training" for people armed on school property?

And if there are going to be special requirements for carrying on school property, why not allow students the right of self-defense, too? Why should they be denied the only effective means of self-defense against crazed, suicidal gunmen, such that their very survival depends on some good Samaritan or LEO taking the bad guy out? Some high school students are adults. Nearly all college students are, too. And teenagers of all ages, 13-17, are clearly old enough to be trained in the use of firearms. Kids of those ages go hunting all the time, and many of them could qualify as "expert" marksmen.

There ARE legitimate reasons why students shouldn't be packing guns to school, and there are reasons why many teachers and school personnel shouldn't have them, either. (primarily because it's too easy for a group of kids to take a gun from one of those armed adults-- this is the same reason most jails and prisons don't have armed guards mixing with the inmate population). But what's so incredibly stupid about the "gun free school zone" law is that anybody expects such legislation to address the problem of crazed gunmen going on school shooting rampages, which is exactly what prompted the passing of such laws.

The answer to school massacres is to make schools hard targets. Which means they will look a lot like prisons, unfortunately. Tall walls and razor-wire fences. Sealed windows. Only a few points of entry, and those must be staffed with at least two armed guards running metal detectors, searching bags and packages, etc. And there ought to be a "team" of teachers or other school personnel who, in the event of an emergency, can drop whatever they had been doing, meet at a safe room, arm themselves with superior firepower and body armor, and go out and confront a bad guy immediately, engaging him within a minute or two of the bad guy first revealing himself, long before the local police SWAT team even has time to lace up their boots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Guns In Schools

gunsmoker said:
and there are reasons why many teachers and school personnel shouldn't have them, either. (primarily because it's too easy for a group of kids to take a gun from one of those armed adults-- this is the same reason most jails and prisons don't have armed guards mixing with the inmate population).
Well, I hope it has not come down to students behaving like violent inmates, but is this a realistic concern in the few states that do not criminalize the carry of firearms in schools (and the several more that do not criminalize carry in private schools, and the several more that do not criminalize carry in post secondary education)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Guns In Schools

gunsmoker said:
The answer to school massacres is . . .
NO, this guy has the answer!

'It is too easy for anyone - children, teens, and troubled adults, as well as criminals and terrorists - to access firearms in this country. Incidents like this happen all too often in all parts of this nation. We know all too well that there are reasons why we have the levels of gun violence that we have in this country. In New York City, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Florida, Wisconsin, California and in too many other places to list, we are holding funerals for children, and we need to do something about that.'

So, there you have it. PAul Helmke thinks it is too easy to get guns in New York City! Hey, at least he was honest this time!

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=73614

Sometimes makes me think these people like these incidents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Three mass school shootings in a week, and yet nobody expresses outrage at the politicians who leave schools with no defenses against such an attack.

In Georgia, a teacher or other armed adult who pulled a weapon and shot an attacker, saving kids, would be a felon under Georgia law for even having the weapon at the school.

There is something perverse about such a law.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Rosie O'Donnell uses the shootings in Pennsylvania as an opportunity to declare: The Second Amendment is 'Not Really a Right'

http://newsbusters.org/node/8064

I don't watch this show (obviously) but theis Hasselback person did an admirable job of addressing Rosie.

Hasselbeck: "What about the fact that firearms- Well, firearms are used 60 times more to defend people then they are to take a life in this country, too. That’s another statistic. This is why we have the debate."

O’Donnell: "I know, but maybe-"

Hasselbeck: "These things confuse us as, as Americans, but, in, in the results of children dying kind of bring it to a front, they bring it right to a boil. And that's why we have this discussion. That should not happen. But you have to remember that people protect themselves. In the times of segregation, when there were bigoted officers out there trying to just rule over and have government tyranny, people had to defend themselves somehow and they did it with guns."
 

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My mentioning "training" was more of an acknowledgement of the political reality than any deep desire on my part for strict training requirements. The change to the law concerning guns in school would never happen if some sort of training weren't required. That is just a fact.

And honestly, I'm not convinced that requiring some level of training to carry in a school is all that bad of an idea anyway. Maybe I'm not as much of an idiological purist as you..
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
Rosie O'Donnell uses the shootings in Pennsylvania as an opportunity to declare: The Second Amendment is 'Not Really a Right'

http://newsbusters.org/node/8064

I don't watch this show (obviously) but theis Hasselback person did an admirable job of addressing Rosie.
Just last friday Rosie was shocked to hear that women carry guns.
http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalert ... 1002.asp#5
Another interesting moment from the show came early on in the program while the women discussed the differences between men and women:
Behar: "...Women are more, a little bit more snotty, though, and nasty to each other. But they talk it through, they don't hit and they don't drop bombs and they don't shoot. They don't play with guns. So that"
O'Donnell: "Yeah."
Hasselbeck: "That's so stereotypical...I know plenty of women who pack a gun."
O'Donnell sounded shocked by Hasselbeck's statement and asked in amazement:
O'Donnell: "Seriously?"
Hasselbeck: "Yeah."
O'Donnell: "You know women who carry a gun?"
Hasselbeck: "Sure."
O'Donnell: "Who are not police officers?"
Hasselbeck: "Who were not in uniform."
O'Donnell: "That they just carry it in case they get attacked? Like friends?"

Minutes later, Walters equated Hasselbeck's knowledge of women with guns to the ineptness of her fellow View hosts:
Walters: "...I would like to say something about my colleagues."
Behar: "What?"
Walters: "One of them says, I know women who carry guns. I mean, that's a great message. This one [pointing to Behar] doesn't even know how to hold up a prop. This one [pointing to O'Donnell] doesn't know how to swallow a cold drink. I mean, what is with you people?"

To female viewers of The View, one could be left with the impression that while it is "wonderful" to be an agnostic, socialist leader, it is not okay to exercise your Second Amendment right and "play with guns."
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
http://badgerherald.com/news/2006/1...achers_shou.php
Lasee: teachers should pack heat

by Courtney Johnson
Thursday, October 5, 2006

In the wake of school shootings in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Colorado over the past two weeks, one Wisconsin state representative devised a plan he thinks will help keep children safe.

Rep. Frank Lasee, R-Bellevue, announced legislation Wednesday that would allow teachers, principals and other school officials to carry concealed weapons on school property.

“This is too important to leave our children in danger,†Lasee said in an interview, calling it another useful tool to help keep Wisconsin students safe.

In addition, Lasee said he plans to offer his bill for co-sponsorship early next year when the state Legislature reconvenes.

The proposed bill would not require all school officials to carry concealed weapons but would legally provide the option.

According to Matt Canter, spokesperson for Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle, there would not be widespread support for the bill, particularly from teachers and police. He added Doyle would not support this bill nor sign it, should it ever reach his desk.

“The governor feels that we want our teachers to teach,†Canter said. “Police officers become police officers to enforce the law â€" we don’t need our teachers serving as police officers.â€

But in support of his proposal, Lasee cited similar plans in effect in other countries.

“It’s working in Israel and Thailand,†Lasee said. “In 25 years, they haven’t had any incidents.â€

Israel allowed teachers to carry weapons after Palestinian terrorists attacked many schools in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Thailand enacted a similar law after Muslim terrorists attacked its schools.

“Heaven forbid that these Muslim extremists and terrorists start targeting more soft targets like schools,†Lasee said. “It could happen, and it’s unfortunate, but it’s the world we live in.â€

Along with other fatal school shootings around the United States over the past week, one hit rural Wisconsin Friday when a 15-year-old student shot and killed his principal at Weston High School in Cazenovia.

And Canter said the most important steps to school safety and prevention of similar incidents don’t involve concealed-carry laws. He said Doyle stresses the importance of making sure schools have specific emergency plans, and that students and teachers feel comfortable informing authorities when there is a possible threat.

“It’s worth noting that the staff and students and teachers and administrators at Weston schools did an amazing job, and they were truly heroic,†Canter said, noting that the school was on lock-down within seconds of the fatal shooting of Principal John Klang.

Meanwhile, Doyle’s gubernatorial challenger, U.S. Rep. Mark Green, R-Wis., was far less critical of Lasee’s suggestion Wednesday.

According to spokesperson Luke Punzenberger, Green has general policies regarding public safety, but has not yet addressed specific policies directed at schools. He did say, however, that Green believes communication needs to be open between schools and police officials.

“Stopping violence in our schools starts with our kids,†he said. “We need to be encouraging young people to come forward when they sense potential threats to their fellow students.â€

Lasee also expressed concern that gun control advocates might use the recent school shootings as a rallying point for stricter gun-control laws and qualified his suggestion by noting additional training would be needed to allow weapons around children in a crowded school environment.

“I want this to be a safe proposal,†Lasee said. “Thereâ™s no reason why we can’t do this safely.â€

(Comment block at the bottom of the page)
 

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Ban Harry Potter

A woman who maintains that the Harry Potter books are an attempt to teach children witchcraft is pushing for the second time to have them banned from school libraries.

Laura Mallory, a mother of four from the Atlanta suburb of Loganville, told a Georgia Board of Education officer that the books by British author J.K. Rowling, sought to indoctrinate children as Wiccans, or practitioners of religious witchcraft.

Referring to the recent rash of deadly assaults at schools, Mallory said books that promote evil - as she claims the Potter ones do - help foster the kind of culture where school shootings happen.

That would not happen if students instead read the Bible, Mallory said.

...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1811
 
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